It’s not for the want of recognising that we needed a vocal sergeant major type character to motivate passion and aggression, I would assume that was what we brought in McGuire in for.
We go again for that in 2024 maybe.

However, I do feel that energy coming from Chambers. He is the type of person you would run through a brick wall for, I never felt that from Powell and only occasionally if at all with Price.

Sadly Vaughan and Williams couldn't inspire us during our 8 on the bound phase.

The team is not as talented as the top sides and mentally fragile. The latter has dogged us even when we had a great side. We lack grit and determination on field and off. Maybe Burgess can change that.

For quite a few years the Wire have been in this position of having one or more of the following deficiences ...
1. lack of team or individual confidence
2. lack of winning attitude or positive mental attitude
3.Some or all of the team are in a cba comfort zone.
4. a psychological block to attaining success on the field.

Perhaps a positive management & coaching & fitness regime will be the answer.

Whilst I agree with your top line. I'm not sure that the great TS sides (if that what you were referring too) were "mentally fragile" they 'just' lacked a bit of composure, or is that the same thing?

We didn't disintegrate/collapse but IMO we were (too easily) 'duped' and knocked off our stride by ultra professionalism from the opposition who knew what they had to do to nullify our talent and win...

I still have nightmares ha ha "Hopefully a Change is Gonna Come"

Well how come it's only saints Wigan and Leeds who occupy super League births that are the only winners of this end of season comp..others have got there and been beaten..so it's harder than you say..and no doubt it'll be the same this season

I meant this current Super League season. No team looks particularly great but you’re right in that Saints or Wigan will probably win it again.

We didnt have the collective composure to beat Leeds at home in the SF.

We lost the plot in the GF against Wigan after the injury to Monaghan.

That's 2 GF we should have won with our team at its peak.

We havent been good enough since then. In fact last 2 grand finals we struggled to score. Was it 1 try per GF?

There is a soft underbelly/comfort zone/low expectations/no consequences culture at our club.

Well none of it matters now, the Sky pundits have just said we are not making the playoffs.

We didn't bottle it in the 2012/13 Grand Finals but we came up against very good mentally tough teams.

When Leeds beat us that was their 5th Grand Final win in 6 years.

Wigan in 2013 didn't have as good personnel as Leeds, nor us (although the injuries did mess up our shape second half) but they were a tough side. Look at Blake Green as a classic example. A good player but not a world beater. Playing in the biggest game of his life, first few minutes Ben Westwood smashes him in the face and knocks him out. He pulls himself together and wins the Man of the Match. No Wire player would do something like that.

When Wigan beat us in those Grand Finals with Wane as coach I remember thinking how different Wane's Wigan was to Wigan sides of old. You didn't look across their roster and think these are all time greats like you did when they had Hanley, Edwards, Bell, Offiah, Botica and co. They were made up of a lot of young players with fairly low profiles in the game, and some journeymen signings from Australia and O'Loughlin. But all of them, young players and journeymen were very very tough and knew how to dig deep to pull out a win.

And gil dudson

2012 we had easily beaten Leeds at Wembley sticking 35 points on them. We had the beating of them.

2013 Messed up our shape? We were 16-2 up when we wenr to and conceeded 28 points without reply. Collapse.

The last 2 grand finals were not about our composure we were not good enough with the ball to even make that an issue.

It's interesting to note that in the last 3 GF we have not scored in the final 60 mins of each. In fact we only managed 1 second half try in all our grand finals. When the going gets tough - we go missing.

How do we explain winning 4 out of 6 Challenge Cup Finals? Three of which were against the serial winners of Grand Finals.

That's one that only the players can explain. The GF is a step up in intensity.

Win next week will confirm us in top 6.

Don't care what anyone else says or thinks, but without those injuries in the 2013 final we win at a canter.

Monaghan's injury was a fluke, but credit to Wigan, they knew they had to stretch the rules and their attack on Ratchford was deliberate and was the game changer - They knew they had to disrupt us and they did and the rest is history.

Forget the GF losses. Our best ever team was in 2011 and we didn't even get to old Trafford.

2011 was our best season in terms of league form but I think the 2012 team was slightly stronger.
We lost Louis Anderson and Matt King and brought in Waterhouse, Ratchford and Hill.

Given that Hill was even better than Morley and Carvell in 2012 that overall made us a stronger team.

its very close.... still a crime neither of those teams won the GF.

Only thanks to a Richie Myler penalty that gifted the game to Leeds if I recall. That was such a frustrating year after watching week after week of sheer class.

For love's sake. 24 hours (actually less than that) later they're sort of saying "you never know" because we looked half decent against an awful cas side who had a man missing for ten minutes and a few unfortunate injuries along the way.

They really are a joke. Are they really the best we've got to sell our game on TV?

Chambers knew in his post match interview, it’s good we are winning again let’s see what we do with Salford next week.

And let's not forget the Mighty Paul Wood.
If anything our games against Leeds & Wigan were lost through cynical tactics by the opposition. The fight that was started by Ryan Bailey that gave momentum back to Leeds & the dirty ,win-at-all-cost foul play by Wigan.

Yeah, I thought he was very sensible and diplomatic, and didn't get carried away or fall for sky's silly questions that may as well have been "is it your year again now you've won two games in a row"?

I used to fume about 2013 and the apparent hit job the crust munchers did on us. But with hindsight and (sadly) more maturity I can't really criticise Wigan in this instance too much, since SBW smashed Blake Green in the face in the first five minutes. Live by the sword and all that. However maybe it's another example in an 80 minute microcosm of how we don't do the clever/niggly stuff as well as the big teams, hence we don't win the big one. Wigan did it better and got the job done, sadly.

Yep Wigan did what they needed to win.