i never said anywhere that seratonin is a myth, and depression does run in families because it can be a learned thinking style, if you have a parent who looks at the world in a negative manner there is a good chance that any offspring will pick this up. your genetics theory doesn't hold water!

i've bitten! nature v nurture.

2 twins seperated at birth and taken away from a mother with depresion. will either child develop/ have a greater chance of developing a mood disorder?

Wouldn't of thought so, but i've never read any research on the question!

and at that stage the defence rests m'lud!

you've not read anything on genetic pre disposition to mental illness then make some bold statements despite this. of course genetics have a say in what mental illness you may develop.

if one of your parents has shizophrenia you have a 25% chance of developing it yourself, both parents = 50%.
alcohol dependance in one parent increases your chances by approx 2 % both parents about 5%.

go away and do some reading, then come back and make some statements based on facts!

depresion runs in families!

oh and yes the twins would still have an increased chance of a mood disorder later in their lives.

1,wasn't talking about schizophrenia, 2, i said depression does run in families 3, can't realy comment on your twins statement as you've not posted a link to this data (but i'll have a look at what i can find)

your statement about adopted twins is correct, but i also found this : Interpreting the results of adoption studies is very difficult for the aforementioned reasons, and it is also challenging to make valid conclusions due to the fact that adoptees already display a higher rate of antisocial personality disorder as compared to the general population.

Now now Slim didnt you have a pop at shuttermans wife for being similarly dismissive of the ordinary man in the streets opinion...



what happened to the we dont have to be a fireman to know how to put out a chip pan fire attitude.

still a very interesting topic though

to state that depression runs in families then dismiss genetics as having no link to mood disorders is an oxymoron of sorts.

p.s. personality disorders (in all their forms) are mental illnesses but not exclusively linked to mood disorders. oh and there's hundreds if not thousands of research papers on nature v nurture if you finding it difficult to sleep.

come on FB, there are vast differences between both statements made. to quatify a scientific theory as pants without even having read anything on the subject leaves a little space for critisism do you not think.

i agree however to use your analogy and take it a little further....

having had a broken arm in the past does not make you able to treat one in the future. it allows the right to give a personal perspective of what it was like and how the treatment affected you, that was what i was poo poo'ing shutterman for!

dismissing pharmacology as a means of treatment for depression is not only treating your own broken arm but replacing it with bionic implants without even attending the steve austin school of surgery!

read my previous explanation of hereditary depression, amd to be quite frank to dismiss the explanation i put forward for your twins theory out of hand because it doesn't fit your argunent is downright arrogant, you haven't really come up for a cast iron explanation for your genetics theory.

1. I DO NOT have a genetics theory.
2. your explanation for (my?) twins theory was only one piece of work amoungst thousands which expressed an opinion that other papers discount, as i also pointed out.

the belief that genetics ie, heriditory factors come into play with all aspects of mental illness is well documented and agreed upon in the medical establishment as well as psychiatry. i therefore don't need to cite documentive proof unless you really want me to (do you?)

if i come accross as dismissive and arrogant i apologise however i think it's important not to cloud facts with opinions. you had an opinion, you contradicted yourself, then got angry when i pointed it out to you.

i am however fully aware that it's a very emotive subject and for that reason i am not trying to score points here just try and clarify that some of the statements you made were not based on facts ie, that PMA along with CBT will cure depression. my experience is that in some cases it can but in others it has no positive effect what so ever and the pharmacological route is an alternative and effective route to take. that said throwing tablets at a problem is not always the right thing to do.


anyway my original post was about reponsibility for ones actions, can an illness be used as a defence for someones actions positive or negative?

i think the thing that upset me the most was when you said "i bet you believe that ************ should get off killing his family due to his mental illness" or something along those lines.. the irony is i didn't have a clue who you were on about but was enraged that you could make such a "from the hip" judgement about my moral stand point on a subject.
i appreciate what your saying but in a nut shell people should only be held accountable for their actions if they have mental capacity, this is a whole massive legal and ethical minefield that after 10 hours in A&E i don't want to even explore on any kind of level!

contradiction?

ALL my post for a one word reply



you stated that genetics don't come into play with mood disorders then say it runs in families!

[i"Two Andy Gorams, there's only two Andy Gorams"[/i

My favourite mental health joke

If you suffer from schizophrenia, don't worry you are not alone and remember there's no I in team, but there are two I's in Schizophrenia.

I used to think I was a little unstable, and then I met every girl I've ever dated.

I think I'm bipolar because, when I get drunk, I dress up like a white arctic bear and I have sex with men and women.

i said it does run in families because it is a learned behaviour not because of genetics, please read back my posts and you'll find i have been consistent on this!

I suffer from post traumatic stress and dyspraxia and aspergus syndrome I try to take each day as it comes. of all of all in our lifetime 1 in 4 will suffer from a mental illness and sadly the ignorant stigma that goes with it.

my first post , my second post , so you'll see i have been consistent, also you presented one out of context line of a study for your rather arrogant "and at that stage the defence rests m'lud!"remark, i respond likewise with a counter explanation and you dismiss it out of hand because it doesn't suit you!

In my opinion it is not often retroactively stated that an issue of the knock-on effect provides a balanced perspective to any discrete or indicative configuration mode.

i dismissed your statement because you made the comment "i have not read much on the subject" but then go on to discount a very well researched theory on genetics. i'm sorry but your wrong. mental illness is carried in our genes in so much as the pre disposition or markers are carried by the offspring of parents that in some cases they have never met! hence the twins being used as an example. however you then bring in a side issue arround personality disorders if i remember rightly having some kind of influence on one study.

your clouding what is quite clearly fact. if your dad had deppression you are more likely to become deppressed even if you've never met your dad! is that simple enough for you????? now take that any way you want, call me a patronising Narcissistic arrogant idiot if that helps but .....i have read a little on the subject manco...unlike you!

This is starting to go around in circles. i think we'll have to agree ti disagree!

A person who commits a crime when mentally ill is still a person who has committed a crime. They should be punished and rehabilitated, if part of that rehabilitation is treatment for a mental illness then so be it. The answer to solving the question lies in the systems inability with rehabilitation. Fix that and you will help alot of people with and without mental illness. Indeed a person's mental wellbeing should not be taken into account when establishing if a person is guilty of a crime or not.
In extreme cases when a person is beyond rehabilitation of any sort, put them down. Simples!

As previously stated I have/am being treated for varying types of loonacy,depression, bipolar and mild schizophrenia. One thing that concerns me and I have not as yet met anyone else who suffers from it. Memory loss !!! I have very,very little recolections from beyond 5 years.I dont just mean currently its like I have a 5/6 yeay memory bank and as I hit another year the furthest year disapears from memory. I,ve taken my kids to WWF 3 times so they tell me,I dont remember, I,ve been to Wembley watching Wigan & United dozens of times,I cant remember,I dont remember events,people etc,etc. Its very sad and distressing but the experts cant shine any light on it and other people I speak to about depression etc dont suffer these losses, any of you lot ?