Don't see any "arrogance" in being disappointed we didn't convert control of the midfield into two scores instead of one during the first fourty.

As for not being happy about conceding in the last few seconds of the half - there's not one of you who'd think differently. And you know it.

Roby was class, mose good for his ten but hill was much better than walmsley last night as he is full stop. Let's add forwards to nrl full backs and the kicking game of half backs to the ever growing list of things mugwump knows nowt about.

Chris hill tackle bust 0, carries 14, metres 96

Alex walmsley bust 7, carries 22, metres 174

Sims. Bust 0, carries 13, metres 80

Mose bust 6 , carries 10, metres 120

No contest last night

No question the saints pack and backs were on top.
Good job Bridge is out and Ratchford is clearly not match fit otherwise I'd be pipping on about R&B again.

Hill better than Walmsley last night?

The stats don't lie with props. Walmsley was rampant, crashing through the line time after time and making more metres. Defense also superb for a big man. Mose as well was good to watch, he likes the HJ doesn't he.

That was only when Walmsley was sat on the bench. Season wise, Walmsley is wiping the floor with Hill, doesn't play as many minutes but way ahead in gaining ground (metres) his tackle busting is embarrassing Hill.

Walmsley is on 85 tackle busts with Hill only managing 35 tackle busts. Hill does make more tackles though because we give Walmsley more of a bench rest.

Walmsley 35 tackles 7.91 average gain per carry
Hill 49 tackles 6.86 average gain per carry

What is your point exactly?

PS For all the Clark haters 39 tackles 9.44m AG

The two best English props in Super League. Hill is not a tackle buster, that's not his style.

That says everything...saints pack were on the front foot more than we were. The more tackles you do, generally the poorer that team is playing.

Erm.. not really. We made five line breaks to their three and there was only 4m difference in overall metres gained.

And you can then put that down to their superior kicking game.

The biggest danger posed to Saints' defence was Walsh.

We were flat out and we made more opportunities to win the game because of the effort.
Saints however never really got out of second gear, playing lazy at times and trusting the boots of the 6 & 7.

Saints played the poorer of the two, they had confidence knowing they have the bigger pack and better hbs. I don't think as a team, they thought they were ever going to lose. Whereas we look like a team that were desperate in hope.

And how many times has Walmsley made a decent pass? Hill has so much more to his game than to get his head down and run into defenders, sometimes breaking a few. That's the difference between a rugby player and a bowling ball. Hill has great footwork that creates space and he finds good passes for teammates - just like James Graham does. Walmsley just runs in.

Do you actually believe any of that tripe?

I believe Hill does have very good footwork for a prop..

Did you know that Walmsley pass offloads are almost twice twice as much as Hill, so no he does,t just run in. If Hill is that good on his feet, maybe Strictly Come Dancing for him next year.

child assist plenty mainly for saints...

The difference is that Walmsley isn't carrying the Saints pack week in, week out. With the exception of the odd reminder of Westwood's halycon days, Hill is and is getting very little rest or bench time as a result.

Most weeks, Walmsley has LMS, Masoe and Amor alongside him, all big units that sap energy and mean Saints physical prescence doesn't lessen when one of them isn't present, in the way that ours does when Hill departs.

Yawn, yawn, yawn.

A decent topic has been derailed by stats bores. Love off and play Top Trumps. Stats can only tell so much.

Back on thread, the future is only bright, IF we sign an organising half back, and an accomplice (preferably). What we currently have at the club in the halves, are plainly not at the level we need.

We have good players coming through, in many positions. Get them halves to play alongside, and they'll prosper even more.

and if the dive with tom daley was still going then a few of your lot would be on it and no doubt win it

I beg to differ about stats they are comprehensive enough to reveal if a player has had a good game.

Internally the players are judged on an even bigger set of stat measurement.

..the future is orange if we buy Jack Hughes and have Laithwaite in the pack.

I firmly believe that the next 2 seasons will see this team go from strength to strength.

It's mainly based on the quality of the young players, who get better each year and more experienced...... I think the Asotasi signing will have taught the club a major lesson in recruitment.... i dont think we will make that mistake again.

We have had to overhaul an ageing side... which has effected us alot this season in terms of league results... But i feel that with some new HB's, that corner will have been well and truly turned.

I do think we need 2 big nasty forwards to give us some real bit still though.

As much as our pack gave 100% and played extremely well; the Saints game showed us that we lack some beef upfront, especially after comparing our forwards' stats v Walmsley and Masoe.

Simms and Westwood provided some great aggression upfront, but we need an 18 stone brute to
make inroads and tire out opposing defences.

Another poster mentioned that it would also relieve some burden from Hill who would perhaps make more breaks similar to the past 2 seasons. That said, he is still absolutely outstanding.

A concern also is that Westwood isn't getting any younger. He has been such a cornerstone for us and it's he's going to be nigh on impossible to replace. That said, Philbin looks really promising and Currie has made big strides.