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Surely if a club has a similar arrangement then they should just continue it only on a more formal basis. sure the leythers wont be happy bout being partnered to the pies
Maybe the bigger clubs should be partnered with the likes of swinton et el to make that league a little more competitive this would benefit the likes of cas who could have one of the better teams as a partner i just dont know what to think as its all a bit unclear atm
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I should imagine for our academy players to turn out for Swinton would give them a better perspective of RL than just playing under 20's every week because they'll be coming up against some old stagers who have been there & got the T shirt. Will Swinton be paying some of their wages i wonder ?
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| Quote ="Dezzie_D_Wireledgend"Surely if a club has a similar arrangement then they should just continue it only on a more formal basis. sure the leythers wont be happy bout being partnered to the pies
Maybe the bigger clubs should be partnered with the likes of swinton et el to make that league a little more competitive this would benefit the likes of cas who could have one of the better teams as a partner i just dont know what to think as its all a bit unclear atm'"
Thats the frustrating thing Dezzie, this is happening piecemeal (Leeds / Hunslet) with no recognised template or outline - which is why I suspect the RFL have failed to get a full agreement on how exactly it will work, and are simply leaving it to the clubs to thrash out individual agreements. |
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| Quote ="ninearches"I should imagine for our academy players to turn out for Swinton would give them a better perspective of RL than just playing under 20's every week because they'll be coming up against some old stagers who have been there & got the T shirt. Will Swinton be paying some of their wages i wonder ?'"
It is certainly true that our U20's will be challenged (some may be ready for this, others not though), and so we can certainly benefit. I think your point about pay is a good one. I suspect that this could be an issue for the two clubs in question to decide, but I would guess if the Championship club do make a contribution, it will be small. |
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Hey as a Swinton supporter I have concerns that we do not become Warringtons feeder club I do hope that there is a restriction on how many dual reg players you can field at any one time. From Warringtons point of view it will benefit your younger players and indeed injured players coming back, by playing in what is a very competitive division. I am not to sure if we pay the players wages would suspect that,that will be the case.
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I dont have an issue with it perse but i think it would be a tad unfair if swinton were to pay their wages, we ultimately are their employer and in the long term would reap the benefits of this.
I think that there should be a cap on the amount of players to play in any one game but this could ensure swinton are still swinton, and same for other clubs but still mean that the others train with us again until there is clarity on this matter i cannot decide wether its good or not
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| Quote ="Marshy1"Hey as a Swinton supporter I have concerns that we do not become Warringtons feeder club I do hope that there is a restriction on how many dual reg players you can field at any one time. From Warringtons point of view it will benefit your younger players and indeed injured players coming back, by playing in what is a very competitive division. I am not to sure if we pay the players wages would suspect that,that will be the case.'"
Without knowing the ins and outs until someone clarifies this and not just speculation, this is what it is screaming out to me. Are the RFL trying to copy the NRL and move to franchising? Thus making a closed shop for the current elite? |
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Quote ="Marshy1"Hey as a Swinton supporter I have concerns that we do not become Warringtons feeder club I do hope that there is a restriction on how many dual reg players you can field at any one time. From Warringtons point of view it will benefit your younger players and indeed injured players coming back, by playing in what is a very competitive division. I am not to sure if we pay the players wages would suspect that,that will be the case.'"
Currently 4 DR's moving to 6 with the new arrangements.
Have a look at this for a bit more insight in general;
www.loverugbyleague.com/blogpost ... come-.html
Swinton have a proud tradition and I can remember when they were in the top flight. I suspect few people on here would wish to see them absorbed by Wire. |
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Quote ="Marshy1"Hey as a Swinton supporter I have concerns that we do not become Warringtons feeder club I do hope that there is a restriction on how many dual reg players you can field at any one time. From Warringtons point of view it will benefit your younger players and indeed injured players coming back, by playing in what is a very competitive division. I am not to sure if we pay the players wages would suspect that,that will be the case.'"
Currently 4 DR's moving to 6 with the new arrangements.
Have a look at this for a bit more insight in general;
www.loverugbyleague.com/blogpost ... come-.html
Swinton have a proud tradition and I can remember when they were in the top flight. I suspect few people on here would wish to see them absorbed by Wire. | |
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When i first started watching The Greatest Game Swinton were the benchmark with great players like Ken Gower & John Stopford & if dual registration can help to keep all our struggling clubs in business then the idea can't be all bad. Who knows maybe the idea can turn around the fortunes of these clubs . Without the lower divisions to bring players through there would be no Superleague because sl clubs can't sign everybody who wants to play the game.
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There is widespread agreement amongst experts in the field that these changes, driven by a desire amongst certain Super League clubs to save money is damaging to the sport. John Kear, Daryl Powell, Mark Aston and Mike Rush have all voiced strong opinions against the changes, which have been forced upon Championship clubs. Franchising has already widened the gap between SL and the Championship, and turning the competition into a poor man's Toyota Cup is only going to make things worse.
Currently Fev run an under 16s, under 19s and under 23s as well as their first team and receive £90,000 from the RFL a year through SKY etc. Hull FC and Hull KR who are merging their acadamies to save money will only have to run an under 16s and under 19s between them, yet receive a total of £1.3 million a year from the RFL. As a sport, we cannot afford to put a price on developing the stars of the future.
Under the system clubs will be able to dual register six players and loan another four, so potentially ten members of the Swinton squad could be from our club, and SL clubs will be able to come in and "quality assure" coaching at their partner club. So potentially, if Batley sign up to the new system John Kear could find himself being accessed by a junior coach from a Super League club. What kind of way is this to treat some of our sport's most proud and famous clubs? To quote Powell "there has been no communication with the Championship Clubs".
Super League, and franchising has created mass ignorance towards the lower leagues. I go and watch a lot of Championship games, and a lot of time the standard of football is better than some Super League games we see on SKY. Most tweets and posts I have seen about this have focused on the benefit to Warrington, yet little thought has been given to the integrity of the Championship clubs, which is a real shame.
This article by Phil Clarke from a few weeks ago sums up quite nicely the effect the new system could have on the academy lads. www.skysports.com/opinion/story/ ... 95,00.html. |
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There is widespread agreement amongst experts in the field that these changes, driven by a desire amongst certain Super League clubs to save money is damaging to the sport. John Kear, Daryl Powell, Mark Aston and Mike Rush have all voiced strong opinions against the changes, which have been forced upon Championship clubs. Franchising has already widened the gap between SL and the Championship, and turning the competition into a poor man's Toyota Cup is only going to make things worse.
Currently Fev run an under 16s, under 19s and under 23s as well as their first team and receive £90,000 from the RFL a year through SKY etc. Hull FC and Hull KR who are merging their acadamies to save money will only have to run an under 16s and under 19s between them, yet receive a total of £1.3 million a year from the RFL. As a sport, we cannot afford to put a price on developing the stars of the future.
Under the system clubs will be able to dual register six players and loan another four, so potentially ten members of the Swinton squad could be from our club, and SL clubs will be able to come in and "quality assure" coaching at their partner club. So potentially, if Batley sign up to the new system John Kear could find himself being accessed by a junior coach from a Super League club. What kind of way is this to treat some of our sport's most proud and famous clubs? To quote Powell "there has been no communication with the Championship Clubs".
Super League, and franchising has created mass ignorance towards the lower leagues. I go and watch a lot of Championship games, and a lot of time the standard of football is better than some Super League games we see on SKY. Most tweets and posts I have seen about this have focused on the benefit to Warrington, yet little thought has been given to the integrity of the Championship clubs, which is a real shame.
This article by Phil Clarke from a few weeks ago sums up quite nicely the effect the new system could have on the academy lads. www.skysports.com/opinion/story/ ... 95,00.html. | |
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N.B. Warrington and St Helens were the only Super League club to vote against the new system.
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Does this new scheme affect our annual shifting to Widnes & Salford ?
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I am very worried about this. Over the last few years Warrington has massively improved it's youth development structure - this has helped produce the strength indepth that has seen us be able to rotate our squad and still win the cup and finish 2nd in the table.
We currently have an u18s team PLUS and u20s team PLUS we can dual reg and loan out whoever we want. This give us great options and flexibilty for bringing through and dropping back youngsters as well as giving senior players returning from injury or out of form matches to play in. To move from this to only an u19s team plus dual reg out 6 players is a massive backwards step.
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Thanks for the considered contributions it really opens up a minefield I never knew there was so much in it and hadnt really thought about the repercussions from both sides or the DR equation mainly because the 'cosy' arrangement with Leigh seemed to operate so well for both sides?
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So what makes clubs like Leeds and Wigan think it's a good idea?
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"So what makes clubs like Leeds and Wigan think it's a good idea?'"
Dont know
Struggling clubs in the Champ. are up for it as they see it as a lifeline to survival. Strong Champ. clubs are against as they see 6Dr's and understand it will be much harder for them to develop their own players and challenge for a SL licence.
Struggling clubs in SL are for it as they can cut their youth training/ travel costs considerably.
We would have to speculate why Leeds and Wigan are for it. It could be a genuine desire to help clubs like Hunslet that are likely to fold if they are left to their own devices. Or it could be a desire to copy the NRL and develop a feeder club to further their own ambitions. |
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"So what makes clubs like Leeds and Wigan think it's a good idea?'"
I think it is by and large a view that by 19 you can tell whether a player is going to make it or not, and it is not worth the money involved in keeping players on after that age apart from those with a serious chance of making it, who would go on DC/loan.
The Australians are of a different school of though when it comes to this, and their players seem to do a lot of their improving during the ages of 18-22 or sometimes older. This perhaps explains why our kids are near enough the same standard as the Aussie Schoolboys, yet this is not replicated a few years down the line at test level. |
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"So what makes clubs like Leeds and Wigan think it's a good idea?'"
It could be that because they both know that a very strong local school and amateur club supply line means they'll never be short of juniors. Despite RL being the only top level sport in Warrington, not all of our schools play RL and we have a very small number of amateur clubs. Hence we rely heavily on bringing in youngsters from all over and developing them through our own system - a system about to be dealt a heavy blow. |
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| Quote ="SEB"It could be that because they both know that a very strong local school and amateur club supply line means they'll never be short of juniors. Despite RL being the only top level sport in Warrington, not all of our schools play RL and we have a very small number of amateur clubs. Hence we rely heavily on bringing in youngsters from all over and developing them through our own system - a system about to be dealt a heavy blow.'"
Good point, haven't thought of that. |
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In Wigan most clubs have a full range of teams from u7s to u18s
St Pats
St Judes
Ince Rose Bridge
Orrell St James
Shevington Sharks
St Cuthberts
Hindley
Chorley
Golborne Parkside
Warrington is a mixture with Crosfields, Latchford and Rylands having virtually a full range of sides followed by Woolston, Cultcheth and Burtonwood with teams at a few age groups.
The strides Warrington have taken over the past few years in youth development have been fantastic, these changes will have an impact and isn't what Warrington wanted.
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| Quote ="Geordie"In Wigan most clubs have a full range of teams from u7s to u18s
St Pats
St Judes
Ince Rose Bridge
Orrell St James
Shevington Sharks
St Cuthberts
Hindley
Chorley
Golborne Parkside
Warrington is a mixture with Crosfields, Latchford and Rylands having virtually a full range of sides followed by Woolston, Cultcheth and Burtonwood with teams at a few age groups.
The strides Warrington have taken over the past few years in youth development have been fantastic, these changes will have an impact and isn't what Warrington wanted.'"
Do we know if there is a significant increase in new teams ( eg at schools) in the Warrington area, or alternatively existing teams adding new age groups ? I would have thought that 3 cc wins and all the work the club does must be having some effect out there. |
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| Quote ="Geordie"In Wigan most clubs have a full range of teams from u7s to u18s
St Pats
St Judes
Ince Rose Bridge
Orrell St James
Shevington Sharks
St Cuthberts
Hindley
Chorley
Golborne Parkside
Warrington is a mixture with Crosfields, Latchford and Rylands having virtually a full range of sides followed by Woolston, Cultcheth and Burtonwood with teams at a few age groups.
The strides Warrington have taken over the past few years in youth development have been fantastic, these changes will have an impact and isn't what Warrington wanted.'"
To be fair down at Burtonwood we now are only missing an U14s. However, like many clubs we are hardly overflowing with playing numbers. Small minority sport compared to football. Quite frankly I think it is just too tough for some kids. |
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| Quote ="SEB"I am very worried about this. Over the last few years Warrington has massively improved it's youth development structure - this has helped produce the strength indepth that has seen us be able to rotate our squad and still win the cup and finish 2nd in the table.
We currently have an u18s team PLUS and u20s team PLUS we can dual reg and loan out whoever we want. This give us great options and flexibilty for bringing through and dropping back youngsters as well as giving senior players returning from injury or out of form matches to play in. To move from this to only an u19s team plus dual reg out 6 players is a massive backwards step.'"
They have just merged the U15s and U16s scholarship teams together. From a personal point of view it makes it very hard indeed for my lad who has just signed to make an impact going forwards as he is only 14. He will then have the same issues beyond U16s again.
Poor show and considering everyone is saying there isn't enough talent to support SL why do something to stem the flow of quality academy players? |
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| Quote ="mark_m"They have just merged the U15s and U16s scholarship teams together. From a personal point of view it makes it very hard indeed for my lad who has just signed to make an impact going forwards as he is only 14. He will then have the same issues beyond U16s again.
Poor show and considering everyone is saying there isn't enough talent to support SL why do something to stem the flow of quality academy players?'"
I completely agree, this whole process is a total disgrace. The RFL and clubs that voted it through should be ashamed of themselves. |
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| Quote ="Winslade's Offload"I completely agree, this whole process is a total disgrace. The RFL and clubs that voted it through should be ashamed of themselves.'"
It's almost as if the RFL are intent on ruining the sport, making one stupid decision after another.
Who are the people in charge of this organisation? |
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