You genuinely can't find a place for Ratchford other than that? I


He would be one of the first names on the team sheet if I were selecting the team on form.

Leave Russell at full back

Yes Rads first name for me and at HB. Gidley FB. Russell wing only because Kev messed up a couple of times.
Patten at hb until Sandown returns...unless the rumours are true.

At most KP made one mistake and he almost recovered that. The "knock on" was as clear an attack on the ball as you could see, should've been our scrum. However it may besignificant that just about the only player TS did not mention in his article in the Guardian was Penny. I think it's one of those coach/player clashes, and there is only ever one winner.

Smith doesn't have some crazy agenda against penny, he just isn't a good player. He has no rugby brain whatsoever, makes errors and is poor in contact.

He isn't a super league standard winger in my opinion, i always thought Chris Riley was the best of the two and he wasn't good enough.

Penny runs sideways alot, gets smashed a lot putting us on the back foot. He has a tendency to drop the ball, isn't good defensively and isn't a great finisher.

He actually has a good attitude, he just isn't good enough which is why Smith doesn't play him.

He has limitations, yes. I suspect that his confidence is shot to ribbons knowing that if he makes one mistake he is out of the team again. His plus points from the Hull game were that we was decent positionally in defence and was targeted with bombs in the first half which he took well, and he scored again. He had a good game against Catalans also that inside ball to finish off that long range try showed vision and execution. I like wingers who score tries and that's 2 tries and 1 assist in the last 2 games he has played. To me he is better than the alternative we have and offers such much needed pace and wide threat. Maybe he is not a top team standard super league winger, but neither is Evans. Running sideways - you would not have liked to watch Henderson Gill or Brian Bevan

Sadly, I've come to the conclusion that our judgement is a little clouded regarding Mr Penny, in the same way it was with Gareth O'Brien. He is a local boy come good, he had a rapid rise to prominence, he is likeable and, in Kevin's case, these is a lot of romanticism about his rise, fall and rise.

[iHowever[/i, we have to be objective. He made a huge error in the Catalan game which gifted Myler a try, thankfully chalked off by the VR, and he is developing the same one-handed carry approach of Ratchford, which allayed to his size and bravery does make him prone to handling errors. Everyone makes errors but KPs seem to be at crucial parts of the pitch, although that is probably due to his willingness to take the ball up.

I don't think TS has an issue with Penny. Tony was vocal in his praise for how Kevin had gone away, improved his game and come back and was equally vocal in his praise for Lineham, who was exceptional, error-free and has age on his side.

Would I keep KP for Saints? Yes, but purely because it minimises disruption elsewhere, especially to Evans and Russell who were both exceptional.

For Thursday i think the best policy is to change as little as possible from the team that won at Hull.

As for KP, if enthusiasm & pride in the jumper were marks of quality he would be a superstar. I love watching him play & sometimes entertainment value is worth more than a few flaws. As for coming inside, he would get criticised just as much for getting bundled into touch with the ball.
Some of my Saints supporting chums love Kev & they believe he would easily fit in with their style of play.

I prefer to see a winger back himself up the touchline against coming inside any day.

This.

His form before Friday was average. He was dire against Wigan.

Just goes to show. Did you see the Catalans match? Hardly average, and not sure what you saw against Wigan to call him "dire".

This is the in thing on here, there's no inbetween, players are either outstanding or terrible/dire/not a *POSITION* while i've got a hole in my .

Another case in point on this, toby king, was getting pilloried on here for poor defence, until the catalans game, then its, ohh he's fantastic.


Same sort of thing with penny as well, referring to the other thread, all players make mistakes, however whatever mistake penny makes has a huge maginifying glass over it, and totally eclipses any positives he's done.

Its ok occasionally for a player to have a 6/10

Presumably you mean way back in April, as he didn't play against Wigan last week.

Which Penny do you watch?

Sorry Wazza, i was on about Ratchford

I should have said his form at full back is average, as every time he's played centre for us he's arguably been the best player on the pitch and he's played very well (Catalans and Hull away) in the halves this season. I also think he played very well early doors when he was a utility half back/hooker coming off the bench.

The last position i see in him is FB, i just don't rate him there. Recent games v Saints and Wigan i thought he had very poor games at FB.

I stand corrected

Three points on this:

1) You would be the first to knife any winger who decided to 'back himself up the touchline' on, say, his own twenty and got bundled into touch and conceded possession;
2) The best Warrington winger of the Super League era (Chris Hicks) invariably stepped inside off his right foot near the line;
3) Our goalkicking this season has given us every reason to try to score further infield. Not an issue when we had Hodgson but missed kicks have cost us a number of games.

I am no murderer.
And neither will I ever critique a winger who backs himself.
However I will be displeased of a player who runs sidewards towards the touchline(crabbing) and then gets bundled over. We've seen Evans get caught out this way, but still I've not been on here to rip him over it.
By the way, running forwards and side stepping off either foot is not the same as running inside.
The goal kicking reason.... I'm shaking my head, I'm not even going to respond to that.

....and this!

Strange...We have kicked more goals than any other team.

We've got 100 from 133 goal attempts, or 75%, whilst Hull got 96 from 115, 83%, with Wigan 72 from 98, 73% and Saints 89 from 114, 78%.

There is sharply stepping inside to avoid getting bundled in touch which a lot of wingers do. Then there is catching the ball, stopping, running sideways 15 yards, and back another 5 before being smashed.

There was nothing intelligent or beneficial to Penny running around like a headless chicken half the time against Hull.

We have score more tries than anyone else. That masks the problem.