The long and short of it is, we can’t defend. The players have been in for 5 weeks now (since Nicholson arrived) and we have conceded 30 4 times in a row. There is no improvement on this front, if anything we have regressed from the start of the season, don’t think we conceded 30 until Wakefield in round 5 or 6. We were plagued with bad apples and fashion designers then too.

Defence is not up to scratch, but at the same time, a number of those defensive errors at Wigan were individual, from younger players. If we're going to play younger players and bed them in, we have to forgive some mistakes.

Not necessarily. The first try, Field went straight between Bullock and Holmes in the build up which saw French brush off Holmes again. The last, it’s Williams that missed Field. That’s just off the top of my head.

But this is another excuse, so what is it? Are the players too young, not interested, bad apples, needing time to gel or is this buck passing mixology? I’m on record for saying that we should have picked the younger players when the season was dead (I said this 10 weeks ago, assuming that we wouldn’t be in a relegation battle, granted), but since then the youngsters have been dropped routinely. Thewlis, Wrench, Dean and Nicholson have all been in and out, in addition to Longstaff. So if we’re having the ‘nurturing and developing’ mitigation, stop dropping them and picking them out in press conferences.

It’s just contradictory again, the excuses offered up simply don’t add up.

So you don't think inexperience had anything to do with Nicholson not clamping the ball properly in a 3 man tackle, allowing kai Paul to release for a try.

What about those two full back errors from Thewlis. Do you not think inexperience had anything to do with those? If not, should we be playing a fullback which who appears to be that vulnerable?

These all occurred during the first part of the second half onwards and they killed us.

If younger players are to be played, mistakes have to be factored in.

And if we’re to accept those mistakes, so is the coach. Naming Dean twice, then “taking Thewlis out of the firing line”, dropping Nicholson after the Cas game, picking Minikin over Wrench… these are all inconsistent with the argument that you’re making.

The young players he played on Friday have probably improved since then and are probably more cohesive with other members of the team. What was appropriate 3/4/5 weeks ago probably isn't now.

If you don't trust Powell, no probs. But we aren't privy to the vast majority of players development on the training pitch. The only people who can only truly assess the situation are the coaches etc there. Powell, I imagine is basing his decisions on this. But if you don't trust him, fair enough.

Also, it has been brought to Powell's attention that, in the past 2 months, stickiness levels on the terraces has been building up. This will have clouded Powell's judgment, along with some rustness on the stadium roof. I think once the stickiness has cleared, the defensive structures will improve.

You’re entitled to your opinion, of course. But I find it hard to believe that the one week since Thewlis was dropped had a marked improvement on his ability. It’s a cop out for me.

You could sense the desperation against Hull KR resorting to Holmes at second row and picking Matautia, Ratchford and Minikin on the edge in an effort to firm up the defence. Then when that failed, the merry-go-round starts again and the “development” matters again.

It’s not about me trusting Powell. It’s about assessing the evidence presented. There is no plan A, even with all of the “stable tools” in place, there is no plan for that right side. And Nicholson aside, they all stated the year with us, they all had a pre-season. Widdop out and Ratchford in to half was a tactical thing, not as a result of injury, so was displacing Holmes with a mid-season recruit, Holmes is still available for selection. We’ve tinkered all year looking for something to work, and when it doesn’t, a kid gets dropped to the reserves for a spell.

You could argue that our strongest performer on the right side this season is still Josh Charnley. Despite only playing a handful of games.

He's still our 2nd in our 2022 try scorers list I think

Surely not, Thewlis has scored quite a few…

Quote ="Barbed Wire"Surely not, Thewlis has scored quite a few…'" Thewlis - 7 SL tries https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/926/josh-thewlis Charnley - 8 SL tries https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/371/josh-charnley

Quote ="Barbed Wire"Surely not, Thewlis has scored quite a few…'" Thewlis - 7 SL tries https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/926/josh-thewlis Charnley - 8 SL tries https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/371/josh-charnley

With all the comings and goings and the integration of young players who're all having to learn quickly as we don't have suitable back ups, it's not a box full of stable tools imo - I think that's where our opinions fundamentally differ. Let's agree to disagree on this because neither of us are being persuaded by each other.

(Just to add); match day is the only window of opportunity we get to see the players. Obviously everything is aimed towards match day performance, but most of the assessment will be done during training as the vast majority of a players time will be at training.

I'm just going to focus on another area for now - thedevelopment of a terrace stickinessometer.

The stable tools are Minkin, Matautia, Ratchford and Holmes. The coach signed three of them for this specific reason, and has earmarked Ratchford as that right side half back for the next 2 years. The kids ARE the suitable back ups to the failed project.

Most other teams will have, in an ideal situation, many more stable groups of players who perform offensive and defensive structures before introducing new/young players.

In your defence though, there are more players who could be added to that 'stable' list.

I'm going to leave it here for a bit. I think there are too many variables to successfully mould a team who perform reasonably efficiently, given the amount of time so far. Neither of us can prove it either way, it's just opinion. Most complete rebuilds are going to take more than a season imo. I think if you ask Watson at Huddersfield last year and ask the Utd fans this year, they'll probably agree - so I'm not the only one tempering my expectations.

Let's agree to respectfully disagree and hopefully we can hear some new opinions.

Good day to you Barbed Wire.

It's highly unlikely Warrington are getting relegated. Where are Toulouse going to win a second game, even if they win on Thursday. Unless of course Saints have already won the LLS and put out a reserve team in the last fixture It is also highly unlikely Powell is going anywhere before next season. The main interest will stem on how next season starts. 3 or 4 defeats in the first 5 or 6 games may seal his fate, especially if against the weaker teams in the league. Start with 3 or 4 impressive victories and well, it was always going to be "Our Year" and he will be the messiah.

I wouldn't even want Powell in charge of getting rid of the terrace stickiness. If he was, he'd probably blame one of the young kids on the refreshment counters.

We started this season with 3 straight wins! Although luckily for us, Holmes was banned for 2 of then.

After Wigan probed our right hand side defence with kicks & realised how frail it was they must have thought Christmas had come early. For all he may be good at returning kicks ,is Thewlis actually tall enough or a good enough jumper to compete for incoming bombs ?

We won because the players continued playing the way they were playing the season before.
And then...

Looking at the Wigan game in isolation, Holmes was much more involved 63 tackles playing at 13. I’m not sure what our back rowers are providing in terms of the structure Powell is playing, regardless of who plays there, they just don’t seem involved in the game.

Long term I would love to see what he could do at stand-off.

If toulouse beat wire and saints beat Wigan, I think toulouse have 3 winnable games. Catalan are tredding water and being a Derby toulouse owe them one. Hull FC have been very poor recently. Saints are not unknown for giving their players a rest.

Long term I think a really good fullback could become an excellent one.!

Part of my frustration with Dufty signing is that, of all positions, we are well stocked at fullback. Ratchford, Thewlis and Ashton are all full backs by trade, then Matautia could back up. It’s a quick fix

I agree with this and if the forwards go well next year, oh for a proper half

Our back three v Wigan looked very frail. Oh those golden days ... when we had Ratchford, Lineham & Charnley!
Our lads currently look lovely in space but the game is rarely like that. It is pretty obvious what Tolouse will do.

The stats from the game don’t make good reading for the forward pack, Walker had the most metres! That is very worrying. Clark made 2 metres, he must have stumbled!!