I agree to an extent with this - Wane loaded the gun with his crass comments in the build up, Flower was the unfortunate who fired the bullet... It didn't help the situation that Saints had come out matching fire with fire - The whole thing was an accident waiting to happen.

I still don't believe the tactic was to just carry out an obvious assault though - More likely was that Wane actually wanted to drag Saints into a bit of a brawl and for Wigan to pick them off as they were undoubtedly the better side in a straight 13 v 13... Unfortunately for Wane, it spectacularly backfired.

www1.skysports.com/watch/video/9 ... -final-the kick The bomb is kicked and Flower follows it up and runs towards Hohaia who is pushed over, it stops him covering in defence, the ball comes back to Flower after he has just knocked Lance over, he fumbles it back and Lance shoulder charges him in an obvious retaliation. Flower gets up and smacks Lance and follows it up with a second punch to a defenceless Lance on the floor.

www1.skysports.com/watch/video/9 ... -final-the kick The bomb is kicked and Flower follows it up and runs towards Hohaia who is pushed over, it stops him covering in defence, the ball comes back to Flower after he has just knocked Lance over, he fumbles it back and Lance shoulder charges him in an obvious retaliation. Flower gets up and smacks Lance and follows it up with a second punch to a defenceless Lance on the floor.

I stand by my previous comment - it was assault, and should result in sine die.

He punched a man who was flat out on the floor, what else was it but assault?

The societal mirror is here.

Flowers first cheap shot RL fans will have no issue with.
Hohaia run in forearm RL fans will no issue with.
Flowers first hit, 50% will love 50% won't

Smacking a prone/unconscious player though, no one will agree with that.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the police got involved a la Duncan Ferguson, it's an absolute shocker. Definitely the worst thing I've ever seen on a rugby pitch (apart from maybe Warren Stevens). I'd agree that maybe Hohaia was targeted by Wane in the pre match plan but Flower just completely lost his head here and will have regretted it almost immediately (and not just because he cost his team the title). Long ban in the pipeline for sure but a lot of it might be covered by Wales internationals?

INOUT

I think there's a very real possibility of him being left out of the Welsh squad as a result of this.

After working tonight, and asking loads of people not to tell me what happened, I get some numpty telling me about the first 5 mins.

Anyway.

Hohia (sp) was stupid in what he did
Flower (first instance), likewise.
His hitting a prone player, is unforgivable, but I'm guessing the RFL will act like an infatuated 15 year old schoolgirl when she first met Bros/Brother Beyond/Take That etc, when Wane and Flower go infront of the disciplinary, and give him a paltry ban.

I LOVE "the biff", but it's got to be done properly. Hit them as HARD as you can, but on the right side of the rules. Let the opposition know you're there. Just don't ####itup for the rest of your side and species.

Someone asked me, how I thought the final would go, and I told them "Wigan will bully them from minute 1, and if they're losing at half time, expect all out thuggery. Well, we got all out thuggery from the second minute, and from what I saw of the game (Sky's highlights) continued bullying tactics until the last minute, e.g. Bateman's petulance on Soleola (sp).

I'm no fan of Saints, but they play the game in a similar spirit to ours, and I for one, am glad they've won.
I'm also glad that fat oaf Wane has got his "cumuppance", for HIS 5h1thouse tactics.

RL KARMA

Like Yed said, i have no problem in the in the lead up to it. Even Flowers first punch for me was normal for a game of Rl. Its the second punch which is the problem. Credit to Wigan for making a decent fist of it against 13

delicious irony in them losing the game in that way.

It should also be said that the assault on the Stains player also lead them being without one of their key playmakers for 78 minutes of the game.

It was pretty sickening to be honest. I didn't see Lance get pushed over in the first instance and so gave Flower to benefit of the doubt when he lamped Lance in retilation to getting a forearm across the jaw, but that should have been it really, he might have still seen red for the way Hohia went down like a sack of potatoes but there was no doubt when he went and stood over him, levelled up and punched him right between the eyes, straight red and should see a very long ban.

Quite annoying that lockers was then given a free pass to make as many head high tackles as he wanted, the ref spoke to him after nearly all of them, never actually penalizing him

But then again this is standard for the king of nigglers. How we've ended up with him as England captain I'll never know.

High tackles & assaults above the shoulder ,whether neck or head,are inexcusable in our game & need to be stamped out before lasting damage is done to someone. There is no excuse to grapple someone's head ,lead with the forearm or punch to another player's head & Red Hall need to act by removing offending players from RL & also by removing any coaches who encourage play designed to injure opponents in any way whatsoever.

That thought crossed my mind too.
The number of times he hit Masoe above the shoulder and got away with it was incredible.
Looking at Masoe's face at the end of the match - it was like he'd been 10 rounds with Ali.

We need to remember that certain players are above the law, particularly ones who are at the top echelon of our sport.
Witness
Sculthorpe (he was a thug, when at pre first team level for us. I recall him getting severe b0ll0ckings from the RFL, before he'd even established himself)
Farrell. Just goes without saying. That brawl with Sculthorpe, the week before a CCSF with us, was the RFL's best jellyfish impression I've ever seen, and just the tip of Farrell's iceberg.
O'Loughlin, has NEVER tackled below the Adam's Apple.

All established internationals

It's also been prevalent in football

Beckham, Rooney (miles off the ball) and Shearer deliberately elbowing opposition players in the head
Shearer backheeling someone in the head.
Again, Captains/established internationals, yet the FA cave-in to them.

One rule for them, another for the rest.

Farrell reminds me of Ryan Bailey, both cheap shot merchants who never faced up to other props in a fight (enjoyed mouthing off at the smaller people though) and always ended up standing behind Jamie Peacock when he was dishing it out on the front line.

Though I don't think Bailey's missus ever shagged David Furner, so I guess that's where the similarities end.

I thougHt was Ha**ey Ho**rd, allegedly

Last year in the opening minutes of the Grand Final somebody smashed a halfback's face in while he was prone on the ground, Silverwood let him get away with it.
This year somebody does it and it's a red card.

The difference is, one of them is one of this country's leading players, respected by all the Aussies, who has proven himself over 10 years as one of the best forwards in the game, and also been one of our best performing international players.

The fans pay the ticket prices to see these elite players so the referees have a responsibility to keep them on the field. Nobody pays the ticket price to see Ben Flower.

Nice try

What do you disagree with lefty?

Do you think I'm wrong to put Westwood up with the likes of Scully, Farrell and O'Loughlin as elite players in the British game?

Or do you not think he's overstepped the mark a few times and been treated with leniency like them.

Remember we aren't talking about complete nutcases like Hock here, just guys that have pushed the boundaries a bit and earned some leeway through their status.

Go on then, I'm game.

I don't disagree with it.
As I said at the time, Westwood was a FOOL to do what he did in the first minute of last year's GF, and, had he been seen by officials, would have been deservedly been sent of for a cheap shot. As it wasn't spotted (iirc, it was met with a chorus of boos from Wiganers when replayed on the screen, but not penalised), he got away with it.

As far as I'm concerned, Westwood's previous misdemeaners (and there have been quite a few) have appropriately dealt with by the RFL. A 5 match ban for a head shot v Cats a few season's back, being one such incident. There have been others. What get's on my nipple ends, is that the aforementioned suspects (Farrell, Scully, SO'L) have got away with murder for years, simply because of their status. Westwood has only reached the "untouchable" echelon, in the last handful of seasons, but still gets banned e.g. Wakey this year, for a "I say you did, you say you didn't" argument at Red Hall.

The RFL and their matchday officials have a duty to do their jobs to the letter. Not on reputation. Without turning this into a Wigan hate thread, there were countless others over the years. Dean Bell, who instructed SO'L into the man he is today (imo), being a typical example.

....and no you shouldn't earn leeway over the years. You play the game to within the laws. Break them, and you SHOULD be appropriately dealt with, no matter if you're an A team trialist, or a seasoned international.

One of the things that really irks me about our game, is the inconsistencies we REGULARLY see.

In the Westwood incident, the HB wasn't prone on the floor at all, he was unsighted and Westwood came in with a swinging arm and got him. It happens in plenty of games, Westwood should have been red carded and any right minded Wires fan would not attempt to condone the incident. However, the Flowers incident I'm talking specifically about the second punch) was quite different. Hohaia was lay on the floor, dazed, potentially badly hurt, unable to defend himself and Flowers held him down and hit him again.

As for the negative press, what do you expect? We shout from the rooftops (usually, quite rightly) that we are a family game, that we are an honest game and that the players are tough, uncomprising but [igentlemen[/i. If the RFL want to preserve that image then they can attract some more headlines by dishing out a suitably tough ban.

What is interesting in that in the press today, neither Flower's nor Wigan's official statements of apology identify what they are apologising for. The first punch? The second punch? Hitting a defenceless and potentially injured opponent on the floor?

The lawyers will be mobilising as I type.

Having had a while to mull this over;

1) I agree with Dita, this was not a premeditated attack by Flower. He simply lost his head ( and then the match).

2) I think you can tell how bad the punch was by the fact he was sent off. The RFL don't want their showcase matches marred by red cards, and referees tend to be overly lenient for finals.

3) It may have been Flower's fist, but it was Wayne's arm. I don't like the negativity he has brought to the game. If other clubs follow the Wigan approach , we are likely to see slow ptb whilst we watch 'all in wrestling', super fit players sprinting off their defensive line, and overtly aggressive 4 man tackling. That is not intended as a deliberate slur, merely an observation that when one team adopts these sort of tactics and is successful, it encourages others to follow them. I prefer the TS approach to rugby, although perhaps tempered with a bit more caution from time to time.

4) I agree with the Wigan fans, I think they would have won if they had not lost Flower. That is far from an endorsement though.

As previously mentioned it was hardly a classic & it's a pity that the image of the Wigan club is being blackened by the negative & over aggressive tactics used by the team & endorsed by the management. They are oozing with talent & need to channel that through skilful play & get away from sledging tactics.It is to be hoped the seven Wigan tourists temper their aggression for the 4 Nations or the Aussies will be banging heads together.