I'd still sack him even if we won the GF.

He said it BEFORE the game

Nostradamus Hemmings

Bless NtW with his upbeat Dunkirk spirit but he may have his head in the sand if he thinks that shipping in 21 points in 20 minutes against 12 men to lose the LLS at home in front of a full house is not bottling but the stuff of Superleague Champions.

Tell me - what are we going to change in the next 3 weeks to enable us to develop the mentality, skill under pressure and attitude to win the most intense game of the season? Apparently the loss at Wembley was going to do that for us. LOL.

My point was that you have players many of us would be delighted to watch every week. You are top of the league with one game to go and have some of the best players in the league.

Agreed.... Lions led by a Donkey.

The stage was set beautifully to win a pot on our our ground against one of the poorer Wigan sides in memory and we blew it.

We give Hemmings all the ammunition he needs on the choking front.

A couple of dubious video ref decisions this weekend mean it's all wide open next week. Almost like Sky didn't want the shield sewn up with a week to go. Hmmm. But I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Two teams knocked the fook out of each other tonight which tells me otherwise. I just don't see how we can't close games down when we're seemingly comfortable. I haven't seen a team as rattled as Wigan midway through that second half. There is NO WAY they should have won. Yet we seem to keep opening doors for teams when we should be nailing the friggers shut!

To those saying we're still top with a week to go:
There's no way we should be having to pull our tripe out for that hubcap next week while sky watch on like giddy Roman emperors. We should be sending the kids and enjoying a well earned rest. Scandalous we've played ourselves into this position.

No excuses for the last twenty minutes the game was there just a little guile needed, but no it was Wigan showing how it's done. Well at least I got to see some good wing play if only we had a manager who could recognise a true wingers worth.
In truth with all that space at times we struggled to move the ball about, mainly kicks, following the same path and not enough variation, plenty of effort most of the time but something is missing, not been this disappointed for a while.

I would send the kids anyway with the message to play for their places in the semi-finals and regather. Impossible mission up at Hull after that capitulation tonight.

We played really well until we lost Currie and the momentum changed with those players not on the pitch, so up until the last 20 we did play well.
We were totally in control in the first half, even after given Wigan a try and pigy backing them in the first 10. It comes down to how you define playing well?
For me we played well and fell victim of some naivety. And not played badly/average and were not good enough.

St. Helens 2014?

How often do we see a team get on a roll, and run in points at the end of games? How often does a team go down to 12 men yet it seems to be a catalyst to them turning it around? Some on here seem to think we've some kind of Devine right to win: what I saw tonight was hardly anything to blow the mind. It was a good game of RL I thought, but it's also something people who watch the game regularly, as I'm sure a lot on here do, will have seen plenty of times before, and will see again.

Sure it's disappointing, sure we should have won. But I just don't see this as terminal, either for the LLS or the GF.

Maybe watching us for a long time has mellowed me-I enjoy when we win, I'm disappointed when we lose. But it makes me smile the dramatic swings we get from fans, literally in the space of 20 minutes: in some people's eyes we went from being GF dead certs to dead beats. My view hasn't changed: we're one of 4 teams in with a very equal chance of winning the GF. There will be years to come when we'll crave to be in this position. Maybe it's just me, but I see that as reason to be positive.

I'll shut up now and let the doom and gloom merchants wallow.

I don't think anyone really can bottle it whilst the game is in its second half and you've played well for an hour. You bottle something before it happens in my eyes and don't turn up.

We just took our foot off the gas and couldn't get it back and Wigan just threw caution to the wind and it paid off for them. One of the hardest things in sport is regaining high intensity once you've taken your foot off the gas.

Fair enough opinion. I believe it's terminal but I will hope not obviously. It's a fine line to draw between being eternally positive and "oh well maybe next time" and more critically thinking "perhaps we need a change". Sport is results based, and we are posting a big fat zero in the last 4 years with a long term coach and money to spend.

Tend to agree now as I feel and maybe rightly that TS put all his eggs in one basket tonight, even so I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we have enough to win the GF after tonight.

(I'm a big fan of Penny and would rather a backline of Penny, Atkins, Evans, Russell in the 3/4), but Russell was crucial in playing a part in the bombardment of attack behind the Wigan markers, making Wigan's big pack move. It's all ifs and buts but tactically Russell was a bigger asset in the game plan than Penny. From tonight's play, I can't see where Penny would have made a difference as a winger finishing. The same goes for if we had Charnley on our wing instead of Russell and Evans- it would have made no difference.

By bottling it, I mean making stupid mistakes and panicking, when under pressure in big games. Silly ball steals, wrong attacking options, passing into touch etc. When Charnley scored that one where he managed to get 10 meters closer to the sticks, the sense of panic was palpable.

So realistically we are looking at a 3rd place finish and Wigan away in the semis.

send our under 19s to hull next week and rest the lads for the semis and there fore stick 2 big fingers up to sky.once upon a time winning the league meant you were the best team in the comp..now the best team in the comp is whoever wins at that cat hole regarding of where they finish in the league..well done sly tv

Valid point but I was thinking more the way Wane played and utilised his wingers and won with twelve men, as you say Russell and Evans play their part as Smith dictates Wanes wingers get the ball at pace, I can't and won't knock the players but I don't want to watch wingers driving it down the middle, as you say it's all ifs and buts, had we been down to twelve who knows what Wigan would have done with the extra space.

we was when one hand ratchford went off and the thugs did naff all

Sorry Gazwire
Russell in the wing was a dredfull error.
No doubt he returns a ball well but that is completely all. He was smacked red raw by Charney and if you missed that I can't answer for your eyesight.
But I do like your posts, just cannot agree over Russell pal.

You can't blame the video ref for it going down to the final game at the KC next week.

As a Hull fan, I'd agree the Wakefield try could have been awarded. However, the decision to bin Talanoa was also dubious and they scored a try while he was off the field.

As for tonight. You played 12 men and let them score 21 unanswered points. One try went to the VR. As he scored I initially thought his hand was in touch, however the VR was inconclusive, therefore as the try had been awarded, the VR decision was correct. I preferred the old rule of letting the VR make the decision. Based upon that, it still would have been a try based upon benefit of doubt to the attacking team.

VR decisions even themselves up over the season. Ellis had one go against him in the semi final, as his no try could not be over turned as the camera angle was inconclusive. Thankfully, we still scored more than Wigan to win the game.

They'll be more twists as the season reaches a conclusion. Think the momentum returned to Hull for next Friday tonight, but it also brought Wigan back into the mix for the Grand Final, which had previously looked like another Hull v Warrington showdown.

True they waited until they were down to twelve to show how to win a game, twelve men twenty one unanswered points, embarrassing!

What can you say to really. We had it in the bag when the thug went down the tunnel and we just ballsed it up. Fantastic from Wigan though at the same time, you really can't knock their ability to tooth and nail it when it comes down to it. It's both baffling and admirable to me and I assume many Wigan fans how they end up with the points at certain times this season.

Of course I have criticisms like us crabbing our way across field in the last two minutes doing naff all to go forwards for at least an attempt to level the game and thus secure the shield. Can't really argue with the Tierney try only because the ref sent it up as a try so it pretty much ties the VR's hands when it comes to being able to overrule. Oh well, it's what Eddie 'TOMKIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNS' Hemmings wanted so at least there's one "neutral" going home happy tonight.

If we're going to do it next week, we'll have bloody earned it.

By the way, right lot of tripe here about Smith. That smile was a wry one, it wasn't a "can't be d" one. That smile was disbelief that we let that game slip. Tony Smith isn't on the field boys and girls. Were you all digging into him when we were 14 points up? NOPE. The same players that went up by 14 were the same ones that went down at the end. Tony Smith was in the stands for 80 minutes, he simply cannot take the wrap for those players letting that game go when we got ourselves into such a commanding position. Whoppers.