I think this pretty much sums up the problem perfectly. As for fixing the problem, not sure a straightforward league campaign would help or that, as a sport, we're strong enough to run it that way any way. Like it or not, the GF makes the sport a fair bit of money (if not the clubs) walk away from that at your peril.

As for the "team finishing top is Champions" and the comparison with Manchester United, well, as pointed out, that's patently wrong. We do have a playoff system. Until we don't, then the team finishing top isn't Champs. I cannot for the life of me understand why people keep banging on about this. Oh actually, yes I can, it's because we finished top and didn't win the Grand Final. If we'd have beaten Leeds at OT, there wouldn't have been a single person on here declaring Wigan as worthy champions.

On the subject of Man United, a mate of mine went to watch them play Reading (I think) the other week and he was bored off his rocker. FPTP isn't the answer.

Sorry Ganson's that's gibberish, he might just have been bored because the game wasn't exciting rather than because of the system under which it was played, it does happen

And likewise people were bored on Monday because it was cold and we played a poor side with no away support, not because we have a play off system? That is what I am getting at. Even in the super dooper NRL there are a lot of mind numbingly boring games.

lets not forgot, since the start of the premier league, with the exception of about 5 seasons, most people have been complaining about it being a one team league, with man u dominating with massive leads on the top of the table, its only in recent years with city's and chelsea's financial boosting it's become slightly different,

....and there were loads of boring RL games before the play off system too when the top team were miles in front and the relegation places were settled. The games for everyone else were dullsville.

The solution to this problem was to have the Challenge Cup, Regal Trophy, County Cups and Premiership Play Offs to introduce a bit of interest. It gave teams something else to play for. It worked to some extent but was ruined a bit by Wigan often winning the lot. It might have been different had we had the salary cap back then.

Trouble with that is that extra games = less intense poorer quality games and player burnout. Mind you players will never stop moaning about burnout IMO.

The response by the Premier League was to say to the other contenders currently about 6 other teams, hey roll your socks up improve your game and catch up. What it didn't say was let's make it 'fairer' give everyone a chance and after 38 games we will have another round of games, a knockout between the top 8 and BTW West Brom are currently 8th 33 points behind United just to make it interesting

Dead right. I've lived down here for over 2 years. My mates down here have never once hinted at wire been the real champs in 2012. Even football has play off's in Aus. People attitudes in the uk are totally influenced by football. But don't kid yourselves, a lot of wire fans moaning is sour grapes. If wire won it from 2nd to 8th there wouldn't be a bleet. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with some but it's true.

To be fair under either system the London game on Monday would have been 'so'. I'm not saying that FPTP is a panacea for all our games ills, but I think that it is a fairer system, something to be built on, properly rewarded with inclusion to other competitions and fully recognised as a real achievement instaed of almost being mocked hub cap this and minor prem that

I suppose it must be 100% true because you've said it?

Lots of different takes on the set-up in this thread. As one of the earlier contributors, it's been interesting to see the thread move from this specific game to the more general state of Super League. I think we are in danger of talking ourselves into a poor competition here. I tend to agree with those who say that there will always be games which are less interesting and that if we go for a Play Off system (which I support), then those almost guaranteed a high finish will get more "meaningless" games. I don't see them as meaningless though; I see our coach managing the squad over 27 rounds to ensure we have the best possible chance of winning the Challenge Cup and the Grand Final. Coming top of the league ladder is good, but nothing like winning the other two. I quite like the format (not really worried whether it's 8, 7, 6 or 5 teams as each will have problems) as it allows some mid-table excitement before the real deal starts in the last round of play off matches. And if one year, a Salford or a Wakefield gets lucky and wins it from 8th, well so be it. Them's the rules.

BUT Monday was an awful game.

I think alot of the answer to this is to manage your expectations. Some people seem to be expecting every match to be as thrilling and atmospheric as a Cup Semi or a Cup or Grand Final. Reality is most games are not - they never have been nor will they ever be, regardless of what format you are playing under or how good the opposition are.

I enjoy watching RL whatever the standard, however meaningful the game, however noisy the crowd. Sometimes that enjoyment is just an appreciation of the play, other times it provides a real buzz and excitement. Many people enjoy watching the kids games at halftime and there is always a bit of a thrill if one of them scores a brilliant try - but there is no need to understand what the game means to enjoy that!

That's not to say we don't need some changes, far from it. I think we urgently need to look at the following:
- Reduction of top 8 to maybe 5 or 6;
- Introduction of u23s side (allowing 3 overage players per game) for every SL club;
- Return of Promotion and Relegation through the leagues;
- Increase central funding for Championship to reduce the gap to SL;
- Something to replace the unsustainable and not completely fit for purpose Exiles concept.

I'm a big believer in not fixing things if they aint broke whilst ignoring the real issues. For me the above are the current urgent issues, we shoudn't be worrying too much about other things.

Football is completely different because in the top division you have Champions League and Europa Leage places to play for, as well as three relegation spots to avoid at the other end.

In the lower divisions play offs were introduced for the same reason we have them in RL - to increase the number of teams with something to play for and stop crowds trailing off as much as possible.

If there was no European football the Premier League would now be completely irrelevant for every team other than Man United and the handful who are looking over their shoulders. Even with all those extras to play for though there are still plenty of meaningless games. They happen in every league, but in a smaller sport like RL a first past the post Championship system will significantly increase them, as well as decreasing play off generated TV revenue dramatically.

People always say "Make top champions then have a play off system for a second trophy like the old Premiership". Well I can't be bothered digging them out now, but it's been posted here before that when Wire were last in the Premiership final there was about 10,000 people there. At Old Trafford last October there was over 70,000. What does that tell you about the value of the two tournaments?

Rugby League is not big enough to sustain first past the post, which is why in the history of the game it has been play offs more times than not. As said above, it is only an issue here because it is automatically compared to football, but what works in one sport doesn't automatically work in another. The majority of sports do use play offs to decide their champions.

That's 100% the response I thought sours grapes would serve up.

I can say with 100% saftey is that: "If you win the weekly rounds then without doubt you are the champions" is 100% wrong. Fact.

This thread has deviated somewhat from the original post (probably my fault in part!) but there are some really interesting opinions. Keep it up!

All I can add is that if Monday's game was the first time Wires71 has EVER been bored watching Warrington, he should count himself pretty lucky.

Oh and the last time Warrington were in the Premiership Final, the attendance was nigh on 40000.

87 Prem final vs Wigan? I was bored watching that game......

Well, quite.

Dreary me, fact this and fact that you're not Rafa Benetez are you?.

No sour grapes grapes from me at all, we have a system and have to play to it, if you had bothered to read a post ot two of mine you may have established that last season my hearty congratulations went to both Leeds and the Wigan club, so 0/10 in the Mystic Meg department.

The 'fact' that I prefer another system and think that it's fairer is just my opinion and what got my goat up was that anyone with an opposing view according to you was 100% wrong and that makes you very arrogant ....in my opinion of course (not factually)

correct... because the weekly rounds are now 'not that big a deal' in the grand scheme of things.... which leads to boring matches, flat atmospheres and a waning interest.

which is kind of what the threads about

Totally agree with this post no interest in games , all that matters is top 8 finish. The top team after weekly rounds should be crowned champions, make the play offs different competition. Seems pointless playing weekly rounds. Look at saints how well they have done yet actually won very little.

I think a lot of the reason English sport prefers a promotion/relegation setup is the love of the underdog. The relegation battle is usually much more interesting than the race for the championship and the idea of a "smaller" team turning over a "larger" team to stay up appeals to the national psyche.

What can't be disputed is that the SL play-offs were brought in to sustain interest over the course of the season and yet two months in and fans as a whole are already yawning and examining their watches. On that basis the present format is failing.

The grand-final is undoubtedly now a key event in the games calendar, with attendances to confirm it, but that doesn't vindicate the play-off format generally, nor does it nullify the promotion/relegation argument.

Try telling the Barcelona manager or Bayern munich manager that the fifth best team in spain, Malaga, could yet become winners of the Champions league.

The sixth best team in England were "Champions of Europe" last season.

I still reckon most of the negativity on here is caused by the hangover of our recent failure to win Super League, even if it is subconscious sulking in some cases.

As someone said earlier, if we had won the Grand Final no one would be saying Wigan should be champions.

Don't get me started on the format in football.

I remember the Scousers going round claiming they were champions of Europe with such greats as Djmi Traore and Harry Kewell in their team when they finished 5th in the league and were below Everton, just because they won a one off knock out game on a penalty shoot out.

Nowadays all football is about is the mighty fourth place in the league.

Play weakened sides in the League Cup, even the FA Cup, just chase that magic fourth!