no, youve won something recently

Yep. Saints have won two out of the last eight Super League titles. Wigan used to win every year.

I bet it irritates the heck out of the Wigan fans who watch mediocre Wigan teams get ritually smashed by good St Helens teams that they know would have been eaten for breakfast by a Wigan side with Hanley, Bell, Edwards and Gregory in it

Its true though.

as much it is amusing to put in these terms you simply can not ignore the achievements of Saints and downgrade them like this. They may have only won 2 titles in 8 years, and the title is the main thing to win but put it in different terms in 8 years they have finished top 5 times, won the CC 4 times, won the title twice won the WCC and in the years they werent winning they were more often than not runners up. Theyre no Wigan for sure but are still damn good and we would all cut our testicles off with a rusty meat cleaver to have half their sucess.

Pass me the meat cleaver when you've finished.

Probably not, if Pie fans ever accept that their dominance was pre-salary cap when they simply bought anything that moved like a class RL player. Fair to say, though, that, delusional as they mostly are, this is a fact they will never accept.

they dont accept it because its not a fact. Im pretty sure Widnes and Leeds at that time were largely if not completely made up of proffesional players yet everyone makes out only Wigan had a full proffesional team and thats why they won. If you want to critisise Wigan then critisise the fact that the side was unsustainable long term but other than that it was awesome.

Leeds; yes, to a degree. Widnes; nope, nada, nien, non

u telling me Davies, Offiah, Devereux, Sorenson, Koloto, Currier, et al were working at ICI?

The first three, yes.

There were still players at Wigan who was working though, Ian Lucas had his own business as did others. Andy Farrell in 93 was an apprentice in joinery.

To be fair half of the warrington squad are doind some sort of apprenticeship/training/further education type thing so thats not a great example.

Farrell was only 17/18 though so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been full time which is why he was doing his joinery, other players did have their businesses though and you didn't have the training/coaching facilities back then as you do now. There was also one season where Wigan had to play as many games in as many days which is tough going no matter what era it is, footballers still whinge now about playing midweek games, god knows how they'd cope doing what Wigan did in a tougher sport to with much less pay.

There's still no comparison between the way the Pies signed anyone who looked like making another side half-decent, whatever the cost. A good example is Andy Gregory. I remember the Guardain ( national, not local ) at the time asking why on earther Wigan were chasing Gregory and the huge cost involved when they already had one of the best young half-backs in the country - Sean Edwards.

Oh and Widnes were never full time pro before SL.

So it was ok for Warrington to sign Gregory from Widnes but not ok for Wigan to sign Gregory from you? Ok. The reason why we obviously wanted Gregory was so that the 2 could form the partnership that they did which proved to be one of the best this country has ever seen. I'm not saying its wrong/right in the way Wigan went about things but other clubs have made just as many significent signings to try and gain success. Saints for example with Newlove, Sculthorpe, Long which has more than enough earnt them success for them.

The signing of Andy Gregory was down to the vision of Graham Lowe.
He saw that Ellery Hanley would be a far better loose forward than a stand off.

Shaun Edwards was comfortable in either of the halfback positions. Signing Greg gave Wigan the best midfield triangle in the game, and along with the distribution of Martin Dermott was the launchpad for so many Wigan attacks.

Wasn't Nicky Kiss hooker at the time of Gregory's signing?

The difference between Wigan and Warrington (and every other club for that matter) was Wigan basically went cherry picking players from nearly all clubs.

Yes but Dermott was coming through and added that bit extra as against Kiss who was in his own rite a good hooker.

What Wigan did is no different to what we do now.

Langer
Johns
Reardon
Morley
King
Myler

all wanted by Wigan, but couldnt live with our financial clout, we're hypocrites for having a pop at Wigan.

The salary cap stops the sort of tactics Wigan used back then. Warrington signed maybe one significant player in the period, Andy Gregory, Wigan were doing their 'cherry and white picking' almost monthly. If it could run, pass or tackle better than average Wigan waved money at it until it signed for them.

Well 1 trophy in 20 years is definately a "start" - Wolves seem to be hoping that they will win another cup in the next 20 years but only time will tell.

I will be happy with 2 trophies in the next 2o years - which is more likely to be the case because just signing people is not the answer - they have to perform on the field & the wolves record to date

WE HAVE ACHIEVED YOUR DREAMS



you will never be wigan and nobody hates you because nobody cares

I always enjoyed visiting Wilderspool, not so much the HJ. I think the swell of support that's accompanied the stadium move has had a detrimental effect on the quality. The influx has diluted the element of your support with humility, respect and an interest in the game beyond one club.

At least with Wigan, the fans arrogance was justified - Warrington fans have been ramming the 'big club' tag down peoples throats for years without winning, or even competing in any significant games... I think this is why most are gutted you now have a trophy to point at.

I fail to understand why so many Salford fans like this one seem to carry a chip on their shoulders re the Wire. Extra fans inevitably means some more 'casual' supporters, but are you genuinely trying to argue that Salford would prefer to maintain their 3,000 gates forever rather than trying to attract more speccies? Or is it the case that even if there were 20,000 Salford speccies they'd all be 'fair and balanced'? I recall 'Loyal fan' once explaining that he hated Wire becaause an ex-girlfriend's Wire-fan dad had once given him a hard time - hardly the fault of the club or its supporters in general is it? And all this talk about 'ramming big club tag' is, as usual, ridiculously exaggerated: you could probably narrow such talk down to about ten people on this board.

Finally, Wigan's arrogance was never justified. They spent their way to dominance and went bust twice on the back of it. They should be ashamed.