That was his swansong. We were his final payday. Castleford saw the best of him earlier in the 90's. Swap him for Shelford or Ellis in our 93/94 side and we would have been miles clear of Wigan and Bradford.

Yes I saw Mike Gregory in his later years as I started watching in 1989 but fair to move him in to the Westwood/Briers/Hill tier on what he achieved over time which is what my tiers are based on.

The big difference between Briers and Ratchford was Briers was a match-winner, even when he was inconsistent in his early years he made a difference in games in a way Ratchford doesn't. Given how Briers improved over the second half of his career those aren't even on the same page in terms of the impact they made for Wire.

If in the past few seasons we had a Briers of comparable age instead of Ratchford we would have won a couple more finals, because all those times when we meander around near the opposition line and are unable to break through, Briers would have made plays that would have led to tries. Ratchford whilst a fine player, doesn't.

Also the number of international caps reflects more about the international coaches at the time. Mark Roberts didn't play for Great Britain, Billy McGinty did, was McGinty really THAT much above Roberts?

He admitted this in his book, that he was frustrated in our team (lets be honest there were some substandard players there at the time) after coming from Melbourne Storm and it came out in those cheap shots.

I do respect Nikau though, because standard procedure for a big name overseas player when they arrive here and don't like it, is to engineer ways of going back home quickly. Nikau stayed through his contract, despite dealing with terrible personal tragedy, and he did show up and make an effort every week, even if in his early days he was giving away penalties out of frustration, he wasn't loafing about. In his second season he was better, and after Langer had gone home during the 2001 season he did step up as a dressing room leader and played quite well, although not the Nikau of Cas/Cronulla/Melbourne days.

Roberts never had a peak to be fair. Injury saw to that. No doubt if injury hadn't intervened, he would have gained GB caps (likely as a Wigan player who would have spent a fortune on him, he was that good). McGinty, while a good player, was merely riding the coat tails of his more illustrious Wigan team mates.

Do you seriously think you could take Ratchford out of our present side and it wouldn't effect results??

I don't, which means yes, he does make a difference to the side in the way you say Briers did.

I appreciate you have a high rating of Briers. Truth is though, he was frustratingly inconsistent until he got better players than him around him.. Small fish in a big pond suited him more perhaps?

International caps were a lot more difficult to get if you weren’t a Wigan player in those days.Mike Gregory deserved his, an exceptional player.

And was a proper house too. Not a bad thing. It's one of the things i miss.

Yes it would affect results. If any one out of Clark, Ratchford, Austin, Hill, Cooper goes down we become significantly weaker, whereas most of the other players I think we could get by for a while. I think we would have won the 2013 Grand Final if Ratchford hadn't got injured in the second half.

The difference between Ratchford and Briers is, if Ratchford were to sign somewhere else, it would be a loss, but he is a player that could be replaced if we made a good signing. It wouldn't radically reduce the threat that we posed to opposition defences, for years ahead, like happened when we lost Briers.

Every time there's a thread on here about why are we so boring and predictable and offer no threat near the opposition line, ask yourself if that would be the case if we had Briers - even the younger Briers from the DVDV era. He always made plays that broke defences.

I'm not trying to diss Ratchford, I'm just trying to be realistic about players, and I think Ratchford is being overrated by some on here whereas Briers is strangely under appreciated given what he was for us over the years. The team was never the same after the point he left.

Sally, I agree to an extent, however, the best way I can put it is simply this,

If you had a side made up of 1 x Lee Briers and 12 x Stefan Ratchford then you would be a much more successful and consistent side than if you had one made up of 12 x Briers and 1 x Ratchford.

The point being that most successful teams (in any sport) are dependent on having a core of reliable, consistent players. The bigger that core is, the more successful a side will be.

Most of Ferguson's Man Utd sides were made up in such a way and this present Liverpool side are also similarly built.

So overall, while Briers was a fine player and good to watch, he needed a good core in order for the side to fire. Ratchford is that core and probably the best of it.

Didn't Nikau play in a cup tie for York against us, where the most interesting thing about the game was a snow ball fight amongst the spectators at half time. If my grey matter is firing, I think the score was a dour 8-1 win, with Fozzie scoring the only try? If (and it's a monumentally large if) I'm correct, he showed class in that game at a very young age.

Why thank you kind sir.

An outstanding player, Grix, would always have been first name on the team sheet for me.

I wouldn’t say he’s our ‘best ever’ signing more like our most consistent...

In that I can only remember him having a handful of bad games. He’s either in our top five performers every week or above average in most games, usually for big games he steps up and comes up with crucial plays .. that’s why I was disappointed to not see him start at Fullback for the CC semi final last week, he rarely lets the side down on the big occasion.

To be fair to Ratchford he's been moved about that much he's never been given one position and been able to progress fully in it and stamp his name as a specialist.
I think by far his best position is full back and one of the best i that position i've seen.
He'll go down as a legend for me in the same league as Briers etc
By far our best value for money signing we've ever made in my oppinion, he's class and the most consistant player we have year in year out.

you mean apart from the majority of the 7 years he's been playing at FB as he was brought in to replace hodgo at 1 ?

Even though he's clearly the best option at Fullback he constantly gets moved around, Fullback, Halves, Centre, Now Loose etc Leave him in one spot and be done with. If we have to constantly move him around it shows the lack of quality in the squads we've had.
He's the best fullback we've had for a long time ahead of Hodgeson, Grose, Reardon etc so i don't get how people don't think he'll go down as a legend.

Legend might be a bit strong, but certainly as a value for money signing, it's a struggle to find better in the SL era. Westwood maybe, Briers if you forget the many moments when he would go missing or where his attitude was questionable.

He may have been here longer, but no way is he a better fullback than hodgson. That guy was world class.

I don’t think we have had a better ball playing 13 since this guy, also I would still personally say Hodgson was slightly the better fullback, he just knew when to chime into the line that bit better.

I just don't get the overuse of the word [ilegend[/i

I agree Lefty, and you're a legend for saying it

Arrange these Wire fullbacks in order of how good you think they were (current order chronological):

Steve Hesford
Brian Johnson
Dave Lyon
Lee Penny
Brent Grose
Stuart Reardon
Richie Mathers
Brett Hodgson
Stefan Ratchford

(All these guys played at least the best part of two seasons at FB; I've left out players who played there briefly: Allan Hunte, Daryl Cardiss, Chris Riley, Matty Russell, Kurt Gidley, Matty Ashton)

Steve Hesford
Brett Hodgeson
Brian Johnson
Richie Mathers
Stefan Ratchford
Dave Lyon
Brent grose (Better centre)
Stuart Reardon
Lee Penny

That's my opinion

Oooh that's a tricky one. Having mulled over it with a stimulating port n lemon, I have:

1. Ratch
2. Hodgson
3. Johnson
4. Hesford
5. Lyon
6. Penny
7. Mathers
8. Grose
9. Reardon

Hodgson
Johnson
Ratchford
Hesford
Lyon
Grose
Mathers
Penny
Reardon