If Toby could dodge injuries it would give him time to develop his game & hopefully turn into a top centre but ,at the minute, there is always that foreboding that every carry or tackle could be his last one for several weeks as he picks up another knock.

King has upped his game (when fit) this season. Fair play to the lad.
However, when Atkins is back to full fitness, he'll be the one (along with Goodwin) occupying the centre spots.
When you're six points down, with a couple of minutes to go and there's a chance of a try, I know who I want to take the chance between Atkins or King

King's gonna have to wait

I disagree. Price isn't Smith.
He'll keep the shirt in this form.

Spot on RD King's been decent since coming back was great yesterday and is in possession of the shirt and keeps it on merit IMO

Too right pal.
I've been banging on about competition for places being healthy for years.
TS believed the player who lost a place through injury or suspension had a right to go straight back in.?
Little wonder the depth of fringe quality demised.

Im usually on board with your opinions but not this time I'm afraid. Hes a young lad and his game time was minimal compared to Atkins in the seasons you mention. This year they've had roughly/pretty much an equal share of the right centre jersey and Toby is well ahead of Atkins. He actually draws a defender before releasing his winger. Atkins just passes the ball. It's a good job Charnley is a quality finisher because most wingers wouldn't be able to finish some of the passes Atkins gives.

The way I se it, When Charnley Plays outside Atkins he has to really work to get the ball over the line. When he plays outside Toby he pretty much strolls in. That says it all for me.

Also in response to your [i"When you compare with Atkins' try return it's difficult to make a case for his inclusion in the side."[/i

[uTries[/u/[uAssists[/u


- 2015: Atkins:11 / 4
King: 2 / 1

- 2016: Atkins: 17 / 6
King: 1 / 4

- 2017: Atkins: 10 / 2
King: 1 / 2

- 2018: Atkins: 7 / 5
King: 8 / 6

Considering the game time King had 2015-2017 I don't think there's too much to complain at there. his Try tally reflects the amount of game time he's had but what's Atkins excuse for his try assists? he's being almost matched or bettered in every season. If he was being matched or bettered by another 1st choice centre fair enough but he's being matched by a lad playing 5 games at best.

This might blow a few minds, but is it possible BOTH Atkins and King are good players?

Atkins was one of our only positives in 2017: lots of metres, a genuine line threat, and our top offloader by miles. He carried on in the same vein in 2018, despite being moved to the right hand side - the opposite side to where he has played virtually all his career. Until his injury he was again a threat and had even added a flick pass to his armoury that Charnley was making all kinds of hay from.

I defended Toby on here early season and I will keep defending him. He is a proper footballer and he has a good record of performing in big games. He has his off-days too, like many players, but I've certainly seen enough to suggest he doesn't warrant the dawn firing squad so cheerfully and quickly meted out on this forum.

And while we are talking about centres,i thought Goodwin was excellent,a good strong display with the ability to do quite a lot with not much space ,& his hand off is amazing.

Spot on about the players and your assessment of one or two on the forum. We do tend to try to prove a point by dishing out so much criticism of individuals.

I'm sure we've had a long debate about both players playing edge second row. It's so much like centre in the modern day. No wonder Livett had no problem adjusting.
There's always someone injured or coming back from injury so at this moment it's a great positive.

No question. I very simply said Atkins won't go straight back in place of Toby.

It's true that we do need both players. Atkins has been quality for us. He is big, physical, runs hard and is a quality athlete, but as well know his passing can be poor and he can go through long spells of mediocre form. I don't think you would find many, or even any SL sides that would turn down his services though.

king though is a complete contrast. Whilst Atkins has to remember to pick up the ball before he 'does his stuff', King loves to have the ball in his hands all the time. Whilst Atkins will kick the pass that is heading for his shoelaces, King will collect it. When Atkins makes a break he only looks forward and never sees the possibility of support runners. When King gets in space he is immediately looking around, placing all the defensive players and possible support. They are both pretty good in the air, but Atkins will fumble the ball every now and again whilst King times his jumps exceptionally well and has sticky fingers.

I think the important thing for the club is that we make the most of Atkins fading career as his speed rapidly starts to decline. King will never have Atkins raw power and speed, but as he gains in confidence he has the chance to be a far more creative and valuable player, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Price has paired him with our most dangerous attacking winger in Charnley.

The Roberts high kick to Toby King was a great plus in the early part of the game v Leeds.
We must keep Atkins. Very powerful second row just ready to be unleashed. I think he'd really enjoy it.

just to say, after signing charnley, he and toby struck up a great partnership during our winning run, atkins came in and did ok to start off with, even learning to pass it a bit, they also looked like forming a great partnership...then it kind of dried up a bit, when our form went on a bit of a wobble you didn't get the same sort of vibe that right centre/wing was all that dangerous anymore.

Tbh Smiffy ,it looked to me like the coaching staff have looked at what is not a great kicking style from Roberts & got the other players to work around his style of kicking.

Hall, who is a winger I admire a lot, looked leaden footed when faced with Toby, it really looked like the apprentice teaching the master a trick or two.

It looked to me like the coaching staff identified it as a weakness and, to be fair, Roberts exploited it pretty well I thought.

I think there was a factor in our win....
Leeds chose not to utilise the pitch for the alloted warming up period the same as Wire.

My point, when Lineham broke, Walker gave chase and was gaining then he levelled out with no gain, soon after he came off with a calf strain injury.

Walker is a key player and his loss is significant for Leeds. Not for a second saying we wouldn’t have still thrashed them, but it would have been that bit harder.

You've spotted something that I've not. What is the problem with his style? If you kick it and it lands where you want I'd be reasonably happy. His kicking and the team's response was way better than Leeds ... especially in the tight early stages. In the semis v Wigan he was again the key kicker. He's starting to have quite an influence and lots of plays are built round him.

Did everyone see Robert's break in the first half? He took the line on and got through.

Good individual break from Roberts (early doors) and we should have scored from it really.

He's definitely on the up. I think we'd really miss him now ... if he was injured.

Player of match in the Quarter Final v Wigan!
Influential in the Semi-Final
[iand hopefully[/i Lance Todd trophy winner in the Final. (I'm pretty sure old "Rubber" tipped him for this sometime back).

I did. I think I even said that I'm calling it now, Catalans v Wire final. I. may have said Cats will put 30 on them...hence Sir A M challenging me.

I've noticed there's a certain smugness about this forum after Sunday's win. If we'd lost the knives would have been out (check out RedVee as an example) and we'd be calling for blood. I suppose this just goes to show theres very few shades of grey as far as supporters are concerned, it's simply black and white.

I'm not sure. I think most on here are balanced and realise that whilst we are far from the finished article we can be happy where we are currently at. You cannot knock a CC Final appearance which is a welcome contrast to where we were in the dark days of 2017.

Saints fans have taken arrogance and smugness to new heights, and they take their cue from the likes of Holbrook and LMS, both of whom lacked magnaminity in victory against us.

When they drew Catalans they celebrated as if they'd got a free pass to the final, and even started promoting the final. Totally lacking in class and a huge motivation for Catalans, clearly.

As for us, for smugness read euphoria. None of us expected this season to unfold like this and we are entitled to enjoy it. No-one is claiming it's as good as won or dismissing Catalans we're simply enjoying the.moment.

To the victor the spoils and winners can smile, the rest can make their own arrangements.

Nothing classless from us.

No smugness or arrogance in wire just enjoying the moment as one poster as said...also enjoying the peace and quiet from the saints lot who av strangely vanished from planet earth