To be fair, I think the shrieking being done about London is because they have been in our comp much longer, under various guises, than Melbourne or Catalans for that matter, and yet are making no discernible progress; in fact, they appear to be going through their death throes.

Perhaps the perception that the game is diminishing in quality is an illusion? Maybe the lack of a high-profile sponsor for the comp and the WC, allied by the continued and utterly baffling love-in that is football, the continued poor media coverage, concerns about the marketing of the WC etc. etc. are causing a general malaise and the format is just a convenient scapegoat for the frustration and concerns of the fans?

Or perhaps not.

It's the top end of SL that concerns me.

I know its the natural knee jerk reaction of Warrington fans to say standards haven't fallen at the top, because we count ourselves as a top team now, but they have fallen loads.

The Bradford team of 10 years back, or the Saints team of Anderson's day, would have smashed everyone in the league these days. I don't remember them going through the league season in half gear and then just turning it on for the playoffs, they were ruthless and professional.

If you want a yardstick for where SL is now, the top side in the league is Wigan, they were top 2 of the last 3 seasons too. Have a look at that squad and tell me where it stands in terms of the greatest squads of the past 30 years. It is probably the worst 'top team' out there.

As a Bradford fan I would be 50/50 on your comment about our team of 10 years ago smashing everyone these days.

Yes we had a lot of class, strength and speed but if you look at the way teams play these days it's a lot harder to defend and score against.

Funnily enough I watched the 2003 season highlights last week and a lot of our tries were simple drop offs or flat balls, these days you have to have a wedge (see Wigan's sweeping plays) to score against a good opponents.

There was also a lot of space on the pitch in 2003 and players were unfitter. Now defences are up in the attack's face. Games now are more entertaining are more close than ever before. From a Bulls point of view I'd rather have the 2003 season but looking at it from a neutral point of view I'd rather have the 2013 season.

Apologise if that didn't make sense......It is 1am after all!

Quite a common theme keeps arising and I think it echoes the majority in my opinion (yes this is my opinion so if you don't agree that's fine, comment don't slate!);

The current Playoff system is killing the game....

Think about it for a second. A team can finish eighth, and still win the league. Speaking to people outside the sport, be it football fans, yawnion fans, even RL fans, believe that there is very little value in the league games until the end of the year.

It's like we're all just waiting for the end of the season. It needs to be looked at. Whilst I get annoyed when we get beat, I have the feeling "ah well it really doesn't matter at all until we get to playoffs.

But would the league have still excited you during all those years of mid-table mediocrity?

It did yes, beating the likes of Saints/Wigan meant a lot more as were effectively gettin a scalp. We almost expect to win now, do I love it yes of course we do, but having been a season ticket holder for 18 years the excitement seems to have disappeared almost completely in the 'non-big' games.

Don't get me wrong, I love RL I think it's the most entertaining sport in the world, I just think the sport would benefit from the Playoff system (and more importantly Promotion/Releation) being changed to something more fair & meaningful (and understandable!)

But would you have kept going if for the vast majority of those 18 years meant nothing? We weren't contending for the minor premiership and weren't battling to avoid relegation (most of the time). What would have kept you going if not the chance of getting into the 8/6 and having a good play off run? The trip to Leeds in 06 often gets a mention when people talk about their favourite games as a Warrington supporter. These threads only seem to have cropped up since 2011, and are mostly confined to our board and Wigan's. I think that says more about us than the league.

Don't get me wrong I'm not particularly a fan of the 8 system as it is, but it is far better than first past the post.

Fair debate. When we reached the top 6 and got into the play offs for the first time, this was an achievement, and felt like we earned it. Finishing into the bottom half of the league and still having a chance is just plain daft!

Top 4 would be better, top 6 I can compromise, not top 8 though.

I also loved relegation, and remember one of the best neutral games which drew a massive crowd was Wakey V Cas, when the loser was relegated! I'm sure drew nearly 20k attendance and a mass on TV. Ok it's not great for the club that gets relegated, but it gives the bottom of the table more meaning (and would enervate more interest in Championship) and the sport as a whole

*generate even

(I agree with the 'first past the post' comment too btw)

Perhaps saying Bradford would have "smashed everyone" is wrong. I do think the middle and lower end of SL is stronger now than then so Bradford would probably have had fewer blowout scores than they did in those days.

But I have no doubt Bradford would be clear head and shoulders ahead of the top teams today - Wigan, Hudds, Warrington, Leeds. They would not be pushed as hard as they were by the Saints team of that era.

You won't get Sky TV to agree to a change in the play-off system...It was devised in the first place to give Sky more play-off games. He who pays the piper etc etc...The game has been pimped to Sky TV so you'll just have to live with it, after all us mugs only purpose is to provide a noisy colourful backdrop for the armchair viewer.

Agree with you on promotion and relegation. A couple of weeks ago I was watching the Cas v Widnes Grand Final 2007. 20,000+ were at Headingley to watch. Sad to compare that to the 6,000 at the Halliwell Jones last September.

on a slightly different tangent... i enjoyed the 2 SL games this weekend more than any other so far this season.

Widnes v Wakefield
Salford v Castleford

what does that tell us about the league?

Im not sure to be honest.

A very crude assessment there Brian but nonetheless very accurate and true.

The worry is if sky viewing figures drop as star players jump ship and games continue to be starved of intense and entertaining rugby. Sky wont hesitate in pulling the plug if its in their interests to do so.

Where will the game be then.

back where you all want it.
No London Broncos or Catalan Dragons, Just part time players, less fit and athletic, played out in front of small crowds. with only four or five games on BBC during the whole year.

It just makes me laugh for Years Rugby league fans have moaned about the lack of media attention the game gets, but - mainly due to Sky - there are at least two games a weekend shown live then a comprehensive roundup of the weekends action on Sky and the BBC, then a magazine programme midweek and because of this there are now a variety of rugby league printed publications, weekly and monthly.

yet all we can do is moan about the product, the media, and anything else... the sooner some of you stick to your promises and leave the game for good the better for the rest of us that actually enjoy it regardless of formats champions and wooden spoonists...

I watched fat Stuart Barnes Salivating over an upcoming union game today which apparantly is going to be a goalkicking battle between wilkinson and Farrell he was so enthusiastic about what was to come it was astonishing, Wilkinson apparantly has a longer range than Farrell so that may be the decisive factor although farrell's kicking is Metronome like.........



me I'm off to a Rugby match

if I can quote Graham Taylor
"you worry. Just don't make the f*****g rest of us worry."

228,000 watched Leeds v Warrington the other week. The day before 93,000 watched the other code on the same channel. Other on Sky Sports 2 104,000 watched Cas v Huddersfield at the same time. Calm down dear.

If only Sky's interest was based on numbers alone

If you check the tv books for sky sports 1 yesterday there was nearly 10 hours worth of back to back union games yesterday which i find very alarming considering how easy sky find it to change our game days & times at the drop of a hat. I do wonder how long it will be before sky seduces union completely & gives league the cold shoulder .

.....please forgive me for any repetition from pages 2-6, I just can't be ar53d reading them.....

I've not logged-in for 3 days, and Colin (YET AGAIN) has got us all reaching for the bleach/paracetamol/razor blades and putting our collective heads in a gas oven.

Two SL players (one excellent, Hock, and one decent, Mossop) have chosen to ply their career's in Oz. If they've been offered a wheelbarrow full of dosh, and have a decent chance of a trophy, good luck to 'em. This however, does not constitute our game "crumbling". Players come and go. I dare say Wigan's scouting team will have Aussie big-name replacements with SoO/Test experience lined up. We wont hear much crying from our media when they do. Because that's what this is all about. The media (even our own RL supporting media) trying to make a big hoo-haah over nothing, to make sure their editor's know they are "working", so they make up a non story. Tell me, were the NRL crying into their Foster's, when countless Test/SoO players left for our shores since 1984, when the transfer embargo was lifted.


In the past few years, we've seen Burgess, Graham and Ellis make a success of their career's in Aus, but SL has survived. It will after Hock and Mossop leave Manchester Airport after the World Cup.


Colin. Please, please, please go and ####-off and go and watch something else. It's getting tedious now. Finding something to whinge about, everytime you switch your computer on. SL's popularity is still great on Sky, as Ganson's Optician's stats (re viewing figures) show. I totally agree with deckchair, re Friday's game. I took little Goldblatt swimming on Friday, so I Sky+'d the game, expecting it to be a damp squib....far from it. Top game.
SL is a great TV product. Re the Hock/Mossop transfers. I hardly think a Cockney bloke, sat in his armchair with his can of warm lager from his sideboard (thanks Chas'n'Dave) who loves his SL,wont fret because 2 Wiganers are going. He'll still sit and watch our game.

P.S. Biscuit. Love the Rob Shepherd inference

BRILLIANT.
The whole world's got to be miserable because Colin Fishwick is

Where were all these big crowds when there was promotion and relegation?

From what I remember it was always the likes of Salford, Wakefield, Cas, London, Hudds, Widnes, us one year fighting the drop. They never had much in terms of crowds...?

I could be wrong, but I think they have lost it to BT Vision next year?

Yep, BT now have exclusive live coverage of the competition and apparently they are planning to overhaul the presentation, adding new things to it.

Sky Sports seem to have little to no interest in RL outside of Super League and are refusing to match BT's offers for the RU. It's odd given that rugby is their second most popular spectator sport.

They've had to pay a silly amount for soccer recently, the F1 won't have come cheap and advertising revenue is down. They will always stick with RL as it is their summer sport.