All that matters at the moment is finishing in top 4 ,whilst insuring we manage our injuries so we have our vital players fit come the semis and hopefully grand final ,, the hubcap whilst nice is nothing compared to a grand final win

I think you struggled to break them down all game. The tries you scored in the first half weren't from your own attacking play, but mistakes from Hull. Bar those I thought you really struggled to get Sandow into the game and your attack didn't seem to have much organisation and structure about it. Had Hull not dropped so much ball I think they could have won by more. Hull tackle in numbers and Smith needs to come up with a plan for games where Clark isn't able to get out from dummy half much. Grinding it out would have probably got you close, but you also dropped too much ball to put them under enough pressure.

Chris Hill looks like he needs a weeks rest and you needed another good forward, Bailey offered nothing again, his only contribution was the big man act late on.

I'd have been tempted to give Hill a week off and left Bailey in the squad for Cats game, as someone as already said its all about being in top 4 when it matters.

Bang on this. If we open the scoring in the first 5 mins, we lose. This has happened for years. Once the 5 mins are up it doesn't seem to have the same effect.

Been saying this for a couple of years, Wakefield at home in 2014 and Hull KR in last year's semi final always immediately spring to mind, although there are many more.

It is the way we tend to lose these games which is so frustrating - probably linked to the well-debated attitude problem we seem to have at times.

Also scoring so early can have a reaction from the opposition, and whilst they are full of energy!

Let us not forget that respecting possession & maintaining discipline, so as not to gift easy yards to the opposition ,are very useful tools in winning matches.

I'm not sure scoring first/ scoring early is necessarily too important. I do think attitude is a problem, we don't respect possession and completion rates anywhere near enough and it puts us in trouble. Worryingly it doesn't seem to be something that the players themselves or coaches seem to be able to rectify in a game. If we start poorly we don't seem to improve. It's almost an arrogance that they feel these things are not important in terms of performance levels. I think recent matches should show us that we get turned over quite easily when we don't complete sets on our own terms and allow our halves to impose their kicking game on matches.

Off the cuff play if it comes off can look great & very entertaining, but unless other players are in the loop it is downright irresponsible &, as we know, can cause the team more unwanted problems. Poor ball retention can lead to a team going backwards during tackle sets.

Score first and then do as says below = win and 2pts

The fact is we are not Wigan , maybe we should grind out a few more results ,, TS is always emphasing defense but , we have scored more points than anyone , surely as wire fans we have to accept this is who we are , this is how we play

Frustrating though it is I prefer our style over that of Wigan or "The Entertainers"!
It is a style of play that I never thought I would see the Wire adopt!

I must say i prefer the off the cuff play, because i go to the match for entertainment ,& like most Warrington fans silverware is not uppermost in my mind, but the topic seemed to be more about winning & losing games.

The topic has turned into a winning/losing debate. When I hear "respecting possession" I hear "let's grind it out through the middle". Obviously last week took "not respecting possession " to hitherto uncharted territory and I hope never to see a repeat!

The topic has turned into a winning/losing debate. When I hear "respecting possession" I hear "let's grind it out through the middle". Obviously last week took "not respecting possession " to hitherto uncharted territory and I hope never to see a repeat!

Now there's irony.

Very good RD

The stats say the opposite.

We've scored first in 11 games, and gone on to win 8 of them.

Games which we've scored early (within 5 mins) and won: 6
Games which we've scored early (within 5 mins) and lost: 2

So good it was worth saying twice....ah say so good it was worth saying twice...

Our main issue is set completion.

I love the off the cuff play, practically buzz off of it, but there's certain times during a game when a standard set and good kick is all we need.

Several times versus Hull last week we were in the driver's seat with a scrum in their half, for us to go on and drop the ball on the first tackle as we tried to score straight away. It was obvious that the game was a sloppy and tight affair, but still we were going for the highlight reel plays instead of forcing a repeat set and building pressure.

Was it 2011 when we finished top ? That season we regularly blew teams out of the water from start to finish of games. Ever since then our seasons & wins have been much more erratic.

I think last week Vespid that all the fannying about trying to score before half time did us no favours...Maybe 2 points & go in level pegging would have been better ,with hindsight.

Three mins left on the clock. 2 points and a set of six before ht.
We gifted a lead at ht to Hull and gifted them a set of 6 that they would not have had if we had took the penalty.

Pure and simple game management. Another one of the utter dumb shaat decisions that TS is completely responsible for. Any other coach would have threw the kicking tee on themselves.

Interesting. I think it stands out more when we have scored early and too easily and lost in some of the most disappointing defeats. Castleford in Newcastle and the CCSF against Hull KR in particular.

It then seems we stop working through the game plan and processes and become wasteful with the ball.

Like I said without the full stats.
2/3's of teams that scores first wins.