I think it’s time to be starting Philbin over Hill now

Whoa! That's a [ibig[/i call! I love Philbin but I think a lot of his impact comes from running at players who are starting to blow.

I can't see a benefit from that. Philbin hasn't shown that maturity to add influence as a prop as yet, however off the bench his eagerness is fresh and energising to the go forward.
We run with that until we have no other choice...then we assess his leadership attributes.

Agree with this, philbin is gaining confidence all the time and together with BMM and akauola (at least earlier in the season) adds real impact off the bench.

Hill is annoying with his poor discipline and referee moaning but we know what he can be and have to hope that he can snap out of it and just get back to what he is very good at.

We need Hill and Cooper making the yards again, like they did at Saints. Before someone points out that we lost that one too, we really ought, and deserved to, have won that game. We didn't deserve to win on Saturday.

I know Hill can be irritating but can't believe people want rid!

Not sure if serious.

Yes, Hill CAN be a mard Aris, and CAN be a penalty machine, but he remains a quality prop forward, and would improve ANY SL side

They will be able to do this against most packs, however catalans pack is IMO the best in superleague on current form. They best us in the forwards in the 22 all draw just before the split and again on Saturday. Mcilorum is playing out of his skin, he's a bit of a thug but the lad can play for sure.

Would you have played an unfit Hodgson in the 2013 final?

Open question (because I honestly can't remember), but WAS he unfit for that match.?

Fitness/illness can find you out in these big games. Adrenaline can only take you so far.
In 1990's CCF V Wigan , Brian Johnson picked Bob Jackson, who for once, didn't have his best day in P&B. It later came out, that Jackson was suffering from 'flu.

Wasn't Neil Harmon not played, because of this (only 2 subs, then) and promptly left the club?

Well he was pretty fit as far as his wife was concerned...
I don't think we'll ever know what happened between TS and Hodgson

Didn't he take a high shot at Widnes just before final and hurt his neck? Or am i thinking of another time?

Was it not Molloy who was miffed at being left out of the 1990 Wembley? Just seem to remember a bit of upset around this.

Especially as he was involved in putting Bob Jackson through to get us there!

He got absolutely pole axed by one of the Widnes 2nd Rows......I cannot for the life of me remember which one, although it could have been Hept Cahill. Brett didnt know which Country he was in never mind the town. He was never the same player afterwards which is probably, in my opinion why he was left out.

In that last year, he did get a lot of knocks to the head.

Absolutely right. Brett at his best was superb but he really was taking some big hits in his last season.

It was Cahill. Hodgson got taken off the field in a neck brace.

He only played one more game after that. Ratchford played fullback in our playoff run where we had good wins over Leeds and Huddersfield - teams who had knocked us out in previous playoffs.

Considering Hodgson hadn't played or trained for a few weeks, it would have been a massive gamble to switch up a winning team to bring him in, if he wasn't 100%. The narrative now is that TS messed up by leaving Hodgson out for Ratchford, especially as Ratchford got injured in the game. But what would have been said if Ratchford had been dropped, Hodgson brought in and then him only lasted 20 minutes or been a liability because he wasn't fit. The narrative then would have been "TS changed a winning team to give his Aussie mate a run out at Old Trafford for his last game, and it cost us in the biggest game."

Also bearing in mind the circumstances in which we got Lee Briers from Saints, I wonder if Ratchford would have wanted out, if he'd been left out whilst in good form to bring in an unfit Hodgson?

Absolutely this as at the time whilst Hodgson was a great player for us Ratchford was in fine form and we would prefer the team selection was based on some form of meritocracy wouldn't we? It's not as though Ratchford was a bit of a kid just filling in whilst a main man recovered from a bit of a knock to gain some experience.

Harsh maybe but I thought it was the right decision based on form and the future

So if briers had missed the two games prior to the grand final and someone like O'brien had filled in and done well, would we not want briers brought back in for the final? Absolute nonsense decision to leave out a fit Hodgson no matter how well ratchford had played for the 2 games previous. Although the story I was told is that smith told Hodgson he was going to be on the bench and he didn't take it to well so was left out.

Yup, my mistake, Snaggletooth. It was Molloy, and he slapped in a transfer request, and went to Leeds, soon after. Harmon followed him, some time later.

Two good props, but, only 2 subs per game at the time. Wires' loss

I felt for Steve Malloy. He was heartbroke. He was our only ball player forward at the time too.
We lost quite a few to Leeds around that time, who had been steadily building since we smashed them a few years before. Andy Gregory masterclass.

Hat-trick for Roberts that day (iirc)
Heartbroken that I didn't go that game, my mate and his dad (driver) couldn't be bothered. Bugger!
That video was pure porn.

I'll tell you what is nonsense Moe comparing Ratchford to O'Brien in the stand in stakes

I'd say it was fair. Ratchford is/was as many planets away from Hodgson as O'Brien was to Briers. Carry on the Ratchford love-in and see where that gets us in a big game not when sauntering past Hull.

We are going to have to agree to disagree (no problem btw). The 'proof of my pudding' though is look where O'Brien has been plying his trade following his release from Wire Salford Toronto and I don't think Gaz was ever in Bennett's or anyone's England plans either