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| Quote ="Wire_Yed"Why have Leigh, they bring nothing only a shiny new stadium? I'd have Weirdness, Barrow, all the current SL sides possibly Fev, Halifax and Toulouse all above Leigh.'"
I sincerely hope Widnes recieve a franchise. I no what you are saying about Leigh. I'd like Halifax to get in aswell. |
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| Quote ="Wire_Yed"Why have Leigh, they bring nothing only a shiny new stadium? I'd have Weirdness, Barrow, all the current SL sides possibly Fev, Halifax and Toulouse all above Leigh.'"
Sorry, my mistake, I agree totally with the sentiment. I'd be content with Widnes + one of the other clubs listed.
We have had long, long enough time to see the top division London club does not work and is not viable. Is it not time to take another look at the strategy?
I much prefer the concept of "organic" growth of the game, seeping from the heartlands. Rather than the "bone marrow implant" method currently endorsed.
i.e) Didn't we once have a team in Nottingham? A realistic expansion if Sheffield were still in play surely? If Sheffield would have local derbies, Nottingham would too. Once Nottingham were established, what then a chance of a Leicester or Derby side?
I also remember a team in Gateshead in 1999 getting absolutely shafted by the RFL to prop up Hull in a daft merger. Where was the expansionist policy then? |
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If you get rid of Quins you just write off all the rugby league players that show promise to Union though. The Quins stratagy is wrong but having Quins in the league isn't.
All they need is someone who can turn it around at club level and someone in the RFL helping them and really pushing for success. At the moment they have neither.
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| Quote ="Wire_Yed"If you get rid of Quins you just write off all the rugby league players that show promise to Union though. The Quins stratagy is wrong but having Quins in the league isn't.
All they need is someone who can turn it around at club level and someone in the RFL helping them and really pushing for success. At the moment they have neither.'"
I get you and I respect your zeal but the same argument about "writing players off" could be made in the Gateshead argument. I understand they play RU in that area too.
How would you fix the Quins issue? More free tickets?
It was really telling to me that when Quins played the double header RU then RL game afterwards that the vast majority of RU fans went home. They didn't want to watch RL even for free. |
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Playing in Twickenham does them no favours at all, it's like trying to market skiing in Brazil on World cup final day.
They need their own identity first then for the rest ask Gutterfax.
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| Quote ="fes"Am I right in saying that Wakey got in last time based on their plan to have new stadium?
If so then I'm afraid they have failed and for the chop.
I think Cas said they would have an improved or new stadium, so again they could well / arguably should go.
It's ironic that they are both good teams.
I can see Widnes coming in but after that not sure who else.
IMO there's something not right at Leigh and 'fax have a good stadium but need a couple more years to develop.
Fev need to build more and there's the stadium issue.'"
Barrow ?? |
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| Quote ="howley-wire"Barrow ??'"
Granted they are a good side but facilities.
Have you ever been to Craven Park? |
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| Quote ="Dropkick Murphy"I've asked this a couple of times and like you here I've been largely ignored by the "I'm all right Jack" brigade on the forum too.
A couple did try and claim they wouldn't mind if it was for the good of the game but I suppose that's easy to say when you know your club is safe. The acid test only comes when you aren't.
In the context of Widnes I do think we as Warrington supporters probably need them more than Super League itself does. By that I mean that although we enjoy a good laugh at their expense and have great memories of putting sixty points on them or their own ground [size=150to send them down one glorious sunny afternoon in 2005[/size, we do miss the derbies and therefore miss them more than most others do.
Personally I'd love Widnes in but the cynic in me says the RFL will bend over backwards to accommodate Toulouse.'"
You know after that game I felt a spectrum of emotions. Clearly I like to beat Widnes at every opportunity (immediate reaction) but, on reflection (more considered view), I did feel like we had confounded our dearest Nemeses (plural?) to a fate I would never, ever, wish on them. A bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face. I miss the Widnes games.
I resent the expansionist view which is concerned about too many teams too close together. It's part of the history and foundation of the sport. I mean Saints and Wigan are just 10 miles apart. Could you ever conceive that either of these two would have to make way for the Edinburgh Eagles on geographic basis? No neither can I. It's just unfortunate that Widnes were in hard times when the axe fell. Could easily have been Wigan in the early 80's and look what we would have lost. |
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| Quote ="Wires71"Sorry, my mistake, I agree totally with the sentiment. I'd be content with Widnes + one of the other clubs listed.
We have had long, long enough time to see the top division London club does not work and is not viable. Is it not time to take another look at the strategy?
I much prefer the concept of "organic" growth of the game, seeping from the heartlands. Rather than the "bone marrow implant" method currently endorsed.
i.e) Didn't we once have a team in Nottingham? A realistic expansion if Sheffield were still in play surely? If Sheffield would have local derbies, Nottingham would too. Once Nottingham were established, what then a chance of a Leicester or Derby side?
I also remember a team in Gateshead in 1999 getting absolutely shafted by the RFL to prop up Hull in a daft merger. Where was the expansionist policy then?'"
Gateshead were actually shafted by the alleged 'First Lady of Rugby League,' Kath Hetherington, who is still in the Chair at Hull. She spent several weeks quite openly lying to those of us who were fans, stating that Thunder were taking over Hull, who would continue to play in Div 2, with Thunder playing in SL. The Club then upped and went lock stock and barrell to the Boulevard, leaving nothing but unpaid bills in the North East. As a consequence the new Thunder was unable to get much in the way of sponsorship because of the reputation the old Club had left behind. In that one season they went from a base of 1000 fans to over 3000 by the end of the season, and interest was certainly growing. The beneficiaries were the Falcons who suddenly gained a lot of support and a new Ch Exec in Mick Hogan (now at Wigan). The loser was RL. The truth of the matter was that the Thunder were grossly underfunded from day one and those running the organisation should have been kicked out of the game, not given a second chance. Rant over. |
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| Quote ="mark_m"If roles were reversed would you travel to Widnes to watch SL if you lived in Warrington? Not a chance.'"
Don't know about Widnes, more likely Salford as easier for me to get to.
The concept is no different to myself choosing to watch football at Goodison Park rather than Cantilever Park. |
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| Quote ="Teessidewire"Gateshead were actually shafted by the alleged 'First Lady of Rugby League,' Kath Hetherington, who is still in the Chair at Hull. She spent several weeks quite openly lying to those of us who were fans, stating that Thunder were taking over Hull, who would continue to play in Div 2, with Thunder playing in SL. The Club then upped and went lock stock and barrell to the Boulevard, leaving nothing but unpaid bills in the North East. As a consequence the new Thunder was unable to get much in the way of sponsorship because of the reputation the old Club had left behind. In that one season they went from a base of 1000 fans to over 3000 by the end of the season, and interest was certainly growing. The beneficiaries were the Falcons who suddenly gained a lot of support and a new Ch Exec in Mick Hogan (now at Wigan). The loser was RL. The truth of the matter was that the Thunder were grossly underfunded from day one and those running the organisation should have been kicked out of the game, not given a second chance. Rant over.'"
Sorry I didn't know the exact facts but I know Gateshead got a very raw deal after a very encouraging start in SL. The RFL would be wetting itself if they could emulate what Gateshead did in Wales or London. |
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| Quote ="Paul Youane"Don't know about Widnes, more likely Salford as easier for me to get to.
The concept is no different to myself choosing to watch football at Goodison Park rather than Cantilever Park.'"
It is different. If Warrington FC were in the top flight, then had a franchise removed, I doubt that the fans would go to support another local side in the top flight. It doesnt work like that. Just as Gateshead fans don't watch Hull (to repeat the point previously) |
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| Quote ="Wires71"It is different. If Warrington FC were in the top flight, then had a franchise removed, I doubt that the fans would go to support another local side in the top flight. It doesnt work like that. Just as Gateshead fans don't watch Hull (to repeat the point previously)'"
Gateshead fans don't watch Hull because its about two hours away. |
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| Quote ="Wire_74"Granted they are a good side but facilities.
Have you ever been to Craven Park?'"
yes i have
the last time i went there was a few years ago where we beat them something like 10-0 in the cup in the mud
but facilities that time werent the best but ive seen a few games on sky and the ground looks in better shape with more support and better facilities
a super league club in cumbria would be a great idea , just look what they did to castleford a few week back |
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| Quote ="howley-wire"yes i have
the last time i went there was a few years ago where we beat them something like 10-0 in the cup in the mud
but facilities that time werent the best but ive seen a few games on sky and the ground looks in better shape with more support and better facilities
a super league club in cumbria would be a great idea , just look what they did to castleford a few week back'"
I understand what you're saying but i like the idea of giving Halifax a franchise. Much better facilities than Barrow and a team on the rise. |
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| Quote ="Wire_74"I understand what you're saying but i like the idea of giving Halifax a franchise. Much better facilities than Barrow and a team on the rise.'"
but halifax wont fill the stadium week in week out , if they get into super league they will be just like quins 2,000 a game
i no barrow dont have the best facilities but they can fill there ground every home game , take a look at crusaders for example last year they were poor didnt fill there ground week in week out but look at them this year , winning more games , better crowds |
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| Quote ="howley-wire"yes i have
the last time i went there was a few years ago where we beat them something like 10-0 in the cup in the mud
but facilities that time werent the best but ive seen a few games on sky and the ground looks in better shape with more support and better facilities
a super league club in cumbria would be a great idea , just look what they did to castleford a few week back'"
Went there for a pre-season game last year. Nothing had changed since our last visit. |
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Hows this for an idea that might allow for Superleague coverage to get to a slightly bigger market without overstretching it:-
Halifax and Huddersfield to merge and play under the name Calder
Warrington and Widnes to merge and play under the name Cheshire
Where have I heard that before !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| Quote ="Paul Youane"If people in Runcorn or South Liverpool want to watch Super League then they are already adequately catered for with the close proximity of both Warrington and St Helens.
I accept that Widnes is not a village however if anybody from the Hamlet of Widnes wants to watch Super League its not exactly that big an effort to travel to Warrington or St Helens. Amazing that people expect Harlequins to attract support from say Lewisham yet the people of Widnes cannot be expected to travel 10 miles maximum. You could walk to Warrington from Widnes quicker than getting from Lewisham to Twickenham by public transport.'"
I would never travel to Warrington if we went bust.If Stobarts and oconnor market well we will be competitive.Widnes have as much a chance as cas,wakey and salford of a franchise.We have a youth set up who beat your u18s the other week, and richard myler was one of our academy players.Only because of administration through that crook ste vaughaun we messed up.If rugby league died in Widnes people would not go to watch wire or saints.I would watch football so your point is not valid.Anyway the majority of wire fans would love us back in superleague.  |
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Those figures are misleading at present as Fax got 3K+ for the opening of the new stand (with lots of discounted tickets). Last season Barrow and Fax averages were almost the same.
Quote ="Wire_74"
What would people most fancy? A three hour drive to a poor ground or a short 45 minute trip to a much better ground. No brainer for me.'"
I presume you're a Warrington fan. It takes 2 hrs to get to Barrow from Liverpool airport, so less from Warrington. Do you go to look at the stadium or watch the rugby ??
We got a 6,500 sellout against Wigan last season (although rumours are the real figure was over 8,000). It was a cracking atmosphere, everyone had a great day, got a beer and could see the action. What else do you need ??
The stadium, although old, passes a safety inspection every year and has in fact had its' capacity increased in the last few months. The RFL and Sky seem obsessed with 'facilities' and are pushing several clubs into financial disaster by insisting they sell up and move into council owned stadia.
Craven Park (Barrow) will be totally redeveloped in the coming 2-3 years (this is underway already). On the field, I've no doubt that we would put a competitive squad together for SL and I'm also sure that we'd get very healthy crowds.
We just need the opportunity. However, I fear that Cumbria will be cast adrift yet again. The sturpid thing about the license system is that we could win The Championship and Challenge Cup for the next 2 years and the RFL could still 'decide' to ommit us. The license criteria can be twisted any way to suit the decision of the RFL. I'm sure they'll use the current condition of Craven Park (a stadium we own worth approx £5M) as a stick to beat us with, but out BOD insist they won't jeopardise the long term stability of the club by selling-up.
You have to respect their decision. |
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Those figures are misleading at present as Fax got 3K+ for the opening of the new stand (with lots of discounted tickets). Last season Barrow and Fax averages were almost the same.
Quote ="Wire_74"
What would people most fancy? A three hour drive to a poor ground or a short 45 minute trip to a much better ground. No brainer for me.'"
I presume you're a Warrington fan. It takes 2 hrs to get to Barrow from Liverpool airport, so less from Warrington. Do you go to look at the stadium or watch the rugby ??
We got a 6,500 sellout against Wigan last season (although rumours are the real figure was over 8,000). It was a cracking atmosphere, everyone had a great day, got a beer and could see the action. What else do you need ??
The stadium, although old, passes a safety inspection every year and has in fact had its' capacity increased in the last few months. The RFL and Sky seem obsessed with 'facilities' and are pushing several clubs into financial disaster by insisting they sell up and move into council owned stadia.
Craven Park (Barrow) will be totally redeveloped in the coming 2-3 years (this is underway already). On the field, I've no doubt that we would put a competitive squad together for SL and I'm also sure that we'd get very healthy crowds.
We just need the opportunity. However, I fear that Cumbria will be cast adrift yet again. The sturpid thing about the license system is that we could win The Championship and Challenge Cup for the next 2 years and the RFL could still 'decide' to ommit us. The license criteria can be twisted any way to suit the decision of the RFL. I'm sure they'll use the current condition of Craven Park (a stadium we own worth approx £5M) as a stick to beat us with, but out BOD insist they won't jeopardise the long term stability of the club by selling-up.
You have to respect their decision. | |
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| Quote ="SRC"Those figures are misleading at present as Fax got 3K+ for the opening of the new stand (with lots of discounted tickets). Last season Barrow and Fax averages were almost the same.
I presume you're a Warrington fan. It takes 2 hrs to get to Barrow from Liverpool airport, so less from Warrington. Do you go to look at the stadium or watch the rugby ??
We got a 6,500 sellout against Wigan last season (although rumours are the real figure was over 8,000). It was a cracking atmosphere, everyone had a great day, got a beer and could see the action. What else do you need ??
The stadium, although old, passes a safety inspection every year and has in fact had its' capacity increased in the last few months. The RFL and Sky seem obsessed with 'facilities' and are pushing several clubs into financial disaster by insisting they sell up and move into council owned stadia.
Craven Park (Barrow) will be totally redeveloped in the coming 2-3 years (this is underway already). On the field, I've no doubt that we would put a competitive squad together for SL and I'm also sure that we'd get very healthy crowds.
We just need the opportunity. However, I fear that Cumbria will be cast adrift yet again. The sturpid thing about the license system is that we could win The Championship and Challenge Cup for the next 2 years and the RFL could still 'decide' to ommit us. The license criteria can be twisted any way to suit the decision of the RFL. I'm sure they'll use the current condition of Craven Park (a stadium we own worth approx £5M) as a stick to beat us with, but out BOD insist they won't jeopardise the long term stability of the club by selling-up.
You have to respect their decision.'"
Fair enough i agree with all that but i think i'm right in saying the Wigan fans got the game free so would of taken 2.5-3k there. However, theres no doubting you have the players, and if as you say it will be totally redeveloped in the coming 2-3 years then i wouldn't mind so much |
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| Quote ="Wire_74"Fair enough i agree with all that but i think i'm right in saying the Wigan fans got the game free so would of taken 2.5-3k there. However, theres no doubting you have the players, and if as you say it will be totally redeveloped in the coming 2-3 years then i wouldn't mind so much
'"
Wigan brought a decent following, but the game was all-ticket and they were allocated 1,000 initially and a further 400 I think. They complained like hell about lack of tickets (as they were free to them), but we were at home and managed to sell the rest to home fans, which was fair enough IMO. |
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I think that one of Salford, Cas or Wakey will be demoted depending on which of these clubs has not at least started to physically build their stadia. As someone said earlier in the thread those three made and broke promises last time to get licences and so will have to be actually building them this time rather than showing artist's impressions etc. Salford are most likely to go due to lack of improvement on the field and abysmal crowds unless they are building and one of the others isn't. The one club that is demoted will be replaced by Widnes.
Should more than one of the three not be physically building their stadium by the time of the decision then I think that a second team should be demoted to be replaced by Barrow.
The lack of a SL club in Cumbria has often been lamented and if the RFL is serious in its desire to establish one then they should give the same opportunity to Barrow that they gave to Salford, Cas, Wakey and (Celtic) Crusaders, allowing them a licence with a single licence period to improve Craven Park or build a new home to meet SL stadia requirements (as well as stepping up their youth systems). As with the three currently at risk they should at least have commenced building by the next decision date. This licence should have the caveat that should they fail to do so by the decision date in 2014 that they will lose their licence.
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anyone know when the announcement is
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