What I don't understand is all the tinkering, especially when TS has moved proven players in their position to other
positions. And I would really like to know why Penny still isn't in the side when he clearly brings more to the table
than anything we have on the wings.

For me, we have been at our best in recent times when Russell is at Fb. Even if he's having some catching trouble,
put Penny back on the wing. He can then sort our wing dilemma out and assist Russell with the catching. The best centre partnership
for me is Atkins and Ratchford and if you pair Ratchford with (a head screwed on) Lineham as previously mentioned, then
Bob's your uncle.

I have to say as well though that in the past few seasons, TS is posing more questions than delivering answers and solutions. With
all the squad investment, I just feel that we should have improved more and capitalized on our early season form. Apart from the odd flashes,
I think we've gone backwards since that promising run in the first 2/3 months (injuries granted).

Last night's performance had fatigue written all over it. Slightly leggy with players not backing up, running lines and providing options for the ball carrier.
Fatigue impacts on concentration and that was evident with passes were off the mark, forward, on the floor etc and loose carries. Some decisions made in defence were hesitant. Giving penalties for crossing is a classic sign that concentration has gone and some of the other penalties we gave away were really soft.
It does sound like I am making excuses but I am prepared to have a go at TS here.
I can only assume that Sam wilde would only have been used if we were 20 points up with 20 mins to go. That smacks of arrogance against a decent saints team. How can a coach whinge about the short turn around and then not use a fresh pair of legs.
There is a massive contradiction here in that why whinge about the turnaround time but then stick a player on the bench that you would not play unless we are comfortably in the lead.
2 out of Philbin, Julien, Wilde, or Penny should have played a decent chunk of that game if TS was so concerned about the players backing up on a 5 day turnaround.

I can only guess that TS asked the players to step up one more time knowing that a 10 day break was coming. Against teams like saints you don't need huge amounts of skill sometimes but you do need a lot of energy and enthusiasm.

I agree 100% but he is damned if does or damned if he doesn't

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

ormsby?

wasn't cutting it, even before the dogs revelation

Pfft, you're welcome to that horrible little individual. Wouldn't want him back even if you paid us for the privilege.

I don't think we can really blame poor passing, lack of ball retention on fatigue. We have had 5 day turnarounds before, we had arguably the easiest semi final ,& the same poor handling skills & decision making have been with us all season ,longer in fact.

I think you need to retain kind, evans and russell in your 3/4 line for wembley

We probably will as there seems to be some stubbornness/childishness call it what you may in the background that we have better wingers than what are playing now but they won't.

horrible little individual



yes ive seen the dog story that went to court and he paid the price.

sounds like your current wingers arent cutting it either

no, the centre and the fullback aren't, but they were still preferable to gene, who was a 'specialist' winger.

Lineham is gash, but we've no idea why penny hasn't returned after his hamstring injury away at wakey.

We wouldn't know, Smith won't play them!

We aren't playing with any wingers, we've got a full back and a centre on the wings at present!

I think what we are seeing at Warrington re our current "wingers" is another chapter in TS hoping to produce a team of utility players , Jack of all trades, master of none.

There must be a reason why Penny has not been picked, and the implication that both him and Lineham have been put on the naughty step for late night shenanigans seems at least plausible. If they have, I have no problems with it, discipline needs to be maintained. But in the case of Lineham - are we missing him anyway ? The one question that does occur to me though, is whether Ormsby would have scored a try in the last minute against Saints using an acrobatic dive ?
I think he would.

Penny and Lineham are carrying injuries. They are "nearly there" hence why they make the 19 (incase somebody has to pull out) but not 100%. TS has obviously made the call not to put them into these games and let them get match-fit through the reserves. As regards ormsby and an acrobatic dive .............. no, the launch point would have been too far out, likely to result in him being pushed out. Would an out-and-out winger have headed to the line quicker off the mark and with more initial launch speed....... possibly.

Penny / Ormsby would more likey scored that try (although Evans was pretty close!).

There's a real technique to diving into the corner in that way that a number of wingers have developed since they got rid of the rule that contact with the corner flag meant you were in touch. Get your legs and backside high in the air with your legs and feet outside the whitewash away from the oncoming tackler.

Evans left his legs within reach and close enough to the ground for his foot to be grounded.

We ought to start looking to forwards to do the forwards work. Instead of having Penny and Lineman take up the first 2 or even 3 carries every set of 6, and perhaps they wouldn't sustain injuries.!?

I think that is a fair point. Against the big packs of Hull, Cats and Saints players like Russell are an important weapon in bringing us back up the field, in fact you can argue that is Russell's main role. So rather than treating the symptoms we should be curing the underlying problem and ensuring our pack (props) can compete. If we lost Hill for 3 months through injury how much go-forward would we have ?

I counted at least 2 sets of 6 where not a single forward took a up a drive and at least 3 more where only 1 or 2 drives where made by an actual forward.

Quote ="Winslade's Offload"If we lost Hill for 3 months through injury how much go-forward would we have ?'" Very little. Sims is currently sitting 21st in the Wire Average Gain stats with 6.68m and 1.9Km. Hill is 8th with 8.17m with 3Km. Hill already has more meters than Adrian Morley in 2009, 10, 11, 12 with higher average. Without him we would be knackered. Sims is not a "prop" I would be sorry to see go. I like his enthusiasm but he often gets smashed when running the ball in. It's why we look better when Hill and Westwood are on. 2017 we need one big grunt forward (Cooper) and one nasty big b*stard with menace (TBA) in my view. If you want to run with 2 lighter second rowers. Source: www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... ayer_stats

Quote ="Winslade's Offload"If we lost Hill for 3 months through injury how much go-forward would we have ?'" Very little. Sims is currently sitting 21st in the Wire Average Gain stats with 6.68m and 1.9Km. Hill is 8th with 8.17m with 3Km. Hill already has more meters than Adrian Morley in 2009, 10, 11, 12 with higher average. Without him we would be knackered. Sims is not a "prop" I would be sorry to see go. I like his enthusiasm but he often gets smashed when running the ball in. It's why we look better when Hill and Westwood are on. 2017 we need one big grunt forward (Cooper) and one nasty big b*stard with menace (TBA) in my view. If you want to run with 2 lighter second rowers. Source: www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... ayer_stats

It's the modern game. The wingers have to be able to help up the middle otherwise they are stuck on the wing only getting a pass once every 10 mins.

Even the likes of Denny Solomona for Cas are jumping in to dummy half and taking a hit up per set when bringing it out of defence. It's a good use of resources.

I've been a supporter of ratch at full back, when he's good he's fav but when he's bad he's a bloody letdown.

I know this is about wingers, but regarding ratch and Russell, I'd be tempted to move on from both of them, there's been talk about knee jerk reactions, but I'm at the point now where im fed up with both their deficiencies, And neither are going to tick all the minimum requirements criteria to be a proper fullback

Gids at 1 and Ratch at 6 then FMC.
Or perhaps that too ruddy obvious for us to try at least once this season?