See the thing is, his point will come back around to the 80s and les boyd and kevin tamati, our sport is so far distanced from that version of the sport its not even relevant to make comparisons like that.

Here's your litmus test on this one, how many people were supporting of antony england? he ticks a few recruitment boxes as he was as big if not bigger than walmsley, and he came from the championship, which as you will see lately is a requirement for the usual suspects complaining about poor recruitment from the nrl, but they dont like it when we try to sign players from the championship.

a lot of these complaints and viewpoints are cyclical, people saying we shouldn't be tieing up money in the halves, we should spend marquee on a prop, couple years down the line when we still haven't won a gf, why are we wasting it on a prop?...

In his last season before he went to Australia most of his starts were at loose forward with most of his appearances coming as a bench prop.

The only reason he didn't start as prop in that season (2013) was due to our abundance of huge forwards.

This was a time when the man-mountain Waterhouse was playing SR/LF. We had Harrison and Westwood playing SR too, all of which would probably be playing prop in our current team.

So I'd say back then, I'd say he was a prop who was played in other roles due to his inexperience and squad quality. I can't remember him ever being seen as a SR.

Unfortunately being beaten by a less fancied club like Wakefield always gets the same reaction from those who don't understand the game.

It's always 'we played crap' and never 'that was a classic' as it would be were we Saints. On the day you were beaten by a slightly better team, this wee you may blow us off the park, who knows.

Some fans simply judge games and results based on jerseys, it's always been there but since SL it's become endemic.

On paper, Warrington is the better team and were we to play each other 20 times this season I would bet on Warrington winning most games.

What I don't get is why the games that are lost are always down to Warrington/any top team playing badly and never down to Wakefield/Toulouse/HKR just being in better form on the day and thus making it a bad game.

It was an excellent game and in the balance until Escare made it totally impossible.

The expression is 'live with it' it's the great unpredictable part of the game.

Early days of having a prop at 13, harrison used to play 13 ( i think he wore 13 at some point as well) and grix got slotted in and around to fill in gaps.

i think its fair to say harrison and cooper came through side by side, harrison struggled to nail down a first team spot as he wasn't the most mobile or direct player so wasn't an immediate slot in for playing prop but was probably too big to play 2nd row/defend wide out. it was only when smith came in he found a 'role' in the side.

Actually, when I saw the two line-ups last weekend, I kind of fancied Wakefield to beat us. Yes, we were missing a few players, but to be honest, we haven't played very well this season whoever has been in the 17, so I'm not sure how relevant that was. And I don't think that either the Wire team or fans underestimated Wakey. We have lost far too many such games for it to be regarded as any kind of shock or surprise anymore. Fans are always insular and naturally want to vent about their own side, but I don't think anyone would argue that Wakey were not the better side last weekend and fully deserved the win. Sets up an interesting rematch, anyway.

Yes, I said the same before the game on the actual match thread on here.

I think there are too many of our fans (especially those who inhabit Facebook) who think we are far better than we actually are.

I've said before, the best plan this season is to lower expectations and just enjoy the ride - Performances and results like last Saturday will certainly happen again, we just need to show improvement & a better looking team ethic come season's end for this year to be a success for me.

Because that's how sport works. You will always get fans of the losing team saying how poorly they played, and fans of the winning team saying how great they played. If a role reversal of the score last week happened in the Challenge Cup this weekend, I have no doubt that Wakefield fans would bemoan their team's performance and not give credit to Warrington.

Exactly.

I don't think the frustration is caused by a one off defeat to Wakefield who deserved the win. I think it's caused by 1) going into the season with a known deficiency in the pack. 2) us being poor/average for 6+ years now and 3) us not seeming to have got any better so far under Powell. 4) some big name players not delivering.

This one line could almost move a man to tears.

Funny how there's something at the back of mind, ah yes, that's it - can he play prop?
A rhetorical question in Cooper's case.

it was a different time my friend, the financial landscape has shifted significantly.

Have a look at wigan's squad around then, they had three (count em 3) ex melbourne storm players in their first team at that point.

Cooper…I did say backrower (not 2nd rower), transitioned into a prop.
Cooper was playing at 13. Being a third mobile prop or loose, makes no difference, my point is about pack size.

3 Cooper’s playing for Wire at the same time would absolutely smash the current SL out of sight, (there does seem to be a prop drought, only Saints Huddersfield and Catalan seem to have the prop cards).
2 Cooper’s would have us dominant or on par with the current top 3 clubs this season .
1 Copper with another light prop/backrower…well here we are.

Cooper is a great prop, no question about it. Packs win games, not wether Cooper is classed as an out and out prop, or as I say, a transitional prop, somewhere in between a prop and a backrower.
The weight in the pack is so important and can help carry light backs to do their thing, but my angle has always been a big good un, always beats a good small un.

The reason we smashed Saints in 2019, is because our team across from wing to wing, out sized them. So much was the difference, Saints made error upon error.

I'm gonna call your bluff on this one.

Can you please back up that statement, with evidence, and please show your working out.

You should be a politician!
Anthony England…the rule is a ‘good’ big un always beats a good small un.

However, it does make me have some concerns about Harrison when you reflect on Anthony England, he’s a big unit, but another lower league gamble. Still, unlike England, Harrison has made waves in the championship, few had even heard of England.

In fact, here are the two teams for you.
1 Stefan Ratchford Fullback 23 Lachlan Coote
2 Tom Lineham Wing 2 Tommy Makinson
3 Bryson Goodwin Centre 3 Kevin Naiqama
18 Toby King Centre 4 Mark Percival
5 Josh Charnley Wing 5 Regan Grace
11 Ben Currie Stand-off 1 Jonny Lomax
15 Declan Patton Scrum-half 6 Theo Fages
8 Chris Hill Prop 8 Alex Walmsley
9 Daryl Clark Hooker 9 James Roby
10 Mike Cooper Prop 10 Luke Thompson
13 Ben Murdoch-Masila Second-row 11 Zeb Taia
12 Jack Hughes Second-row 17 Dominique Peyroux
14 Jason Clark Loose forward 15 Morgan Knowles
19 Sitaleki Akauola interchange 13 Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook
17 Joe Philbin interchange 16 Kyle Amor
23 Matthew Davis interchange 20 Jack Ashworth
22 Jake Mamo interchange 12 Joseph Paulo

I've highlighted the forwards who are currently considered "not big enough" and also included mike cooper off the back of this.

Almost every player on that day was 6ft plus from wing to wing.
We put weighted them I think on all 13 positions but Warmsley.

Jack Hughes actually played the 6 not Currie.

Btw FMC, I didn’t say Cooper isn’t big enough, I said the pack isn’t big enough. Give me 2/3/4/5 Cooper’s all day long. Just don’t give me a front row Cooper and a Hughes!

How does that equate to “ Cooper has been found out”? That is a turnaround of Johnsonesque proportions (Boris not Samuel).

My take on the2019 CC Final was that our defence stood up manfully & wouldn't let Saints play their usual game. If Saints had got into their stride they could have had a big score.

Nah, 2019 was a dodgy ref, Sir Eamon told us all in his programme notes if you remember..

Found out….
Cooper cannot carry a front row of him and a backrower, the same way Warmsley can. Although my remark was misleading. We have been found out I ought to have posted.

Hughes was named at 6 but Currie played in that position right from the start of the game if memory serves.

It was the other way around