the lower ranks just follow orders given i understand the army is an organisation but its unfair that this would show the lads on the ground in a bad light innocents will get injured/ or even worse in conflict but the innocents are usually hit from afar by "smart" bombs or artillery which is ordered from above. The army can be reconised as the who institution or as "an army" meaning a small band of men

Yeah I mean the army as an organisation, if you're in the business of killing targets then some times the wrong intelligence will come through and you will kill the wrong one, it happens in the army and it happened to the police with Jean de Menezes. It doesn't mean that our police are all bent and corrupt.

But the worst thing about this for me, is that these Tottenham rioters have just used it as an excuse to go and do a big theft of PC World, JD sports etc, like as if that is showing solidarity for the guy who was killed, they have just disrespected his name even more.

great posts as usaul sal

Yes this is my point about the Met police and the Jean Michael de Menezes incident that got brought up earlier in the thread, people use that to attack the police as an institution saying they just go gung ho shooting people. But they just carried out orders and a mission that was based on bad intelligence.

If the army is sent to carry out a mission to eliminate some Taleban insurgents from a street, and it turns out after they have carried out the mission that it was bad intelligence, then thats the same situation, it doesn't mean the squaddies are cowboys who have gone shooting up everything.

The fact they went and looted Aldi speaks volumes.

"Gunning them all down". The very definition of behaving in a civilised manner.

They've moved to Enfield tonight, that's only 4 miles from me, hope the scroats don't come to Barnet, doubt it due to the demographics but they are not far now.
I shop in Enfield, hope they haven't burned my bank down.

More trouble last night in London. Truly is horrible to see - my thoughts go to all innocent civilians caught up in this chaos. Businesses etc equal livelihoods ruined. People who have lived in the area describe it as resembling a warzone.

As for the original incident - I don't know all of the facts, but it seems the deceased was a persistent offender who was prevalent in the gang warfare scene in the area. And I know many like to rollock the Police for being heavy handed and corrupt etc, but even so I remain optimistically faithful that the Police would not kill someone intentionally unless they were threatened or it was required.

But ultimately the actions of some have disgraced a mans name who we do not know yet was good/bad. I feel sorry for the peaceful protesters and all those innocent who have been affected by these disgusting acts.

A wider question I ask is where the hell are the Politicians? Our PM and Chancellor are sunning themselves abroad and appear to view this as not necessary for their presence. The Mayor of London is god knows where, and I don't think anyone gives a damn where Nick Clegg is. It's just shambolic and reminiscent of an era this country thought it had long moved beyond.

Pathetic, seems the police can't do too much about it though.

Police seem to be using the same strategy to that of the Toxteth riots in the 80's. Totally the wrong way to go about it. Good if you're a homeless bloke though, great opp for doing a bit of looting and earning yourself a bit of extra dough.(joke)

Just the type of people who the Tottenham rioters are going to listen to, I can see it now, David Cameron riding into the midst of the riots, going "yo peeps, dis violence is dizzy blud! you betta call off dis mad ting propa sharp like or my man Osborne's gunna merk u, u know wat im sayin blud"

the return of 'hug a hoody'

its not a patch on the great fire of pontypandy i was watching yesterday with my little un. Good job the wind changed and it started to rain as even Fireman Sam could not put it out.

Latest is that the policeman who was shot may have been shot by another policeman, rather than the dead man.
Mind you, if you carry a gun, you are asking to be shot by adrenelin fuelled officers.
The "rioting" is simply an excuse for a good nights looting and burning.
Here's a thought. Why aren't all MPs etc made to become special constables, and then they might understand what life is really like on the streeets of our capital.

Surely you cannot be suggesting that millionaire old Etonians are not aware of what life is like for ordinary people!!!

alternatively,the special constables could become MPs and learn what it's like to be lazy,useless b******s and fiddle their expenses

its now going off in hackney,utter chaos..anyone arrested sling em in prison and make them do a lenghty stretch.

It's also going off in Southgate and looking like it may in Barnet (where i live)

I'm here now, all the shops are closed shutters down and at least 80 police, they are stopping anyone between the ages of 10-30 and questioning them.
Think i'll be parking my car elsewhere tonight.

That would mean they would have to work for no pay, highly unlikely they would do that for about 5 hours a week

They would only have expenses to fiddle I suppose

forget this police brutality rubbish, the police should be armed, and be able to do what they need to in order to do thir job properly. being armed may actually make people respect the police and fear them. if people cry 'police brutality', the police should have the full backing of the government. this country seems too soft to me compared to what i have heard about other countries police methods.

About 14 years ago i saw a lad moon a civil guard in Spain to which the response was a crack over the head then a few more on the legs, his mate ran in to stop it to which another one hit him across the arm, he stumbled back and got a few kicks to the ribs, then both chucked in the back of a van and carted off.

Imagine that here?

Any rioting in France and the CRS is called in - they are a ruthless lot who really don't fanny around

Fighting in Hackney now, need to grow up. Olympics here next year

That's how it used to be here. You messed with the police at your peril. I was dead against the police for a good while following the miners strike but I hate the way it's gone now.

kicking off in lewisham aswell



Had to laugh at a protester/looter in Hackney. Raided a JD Sports shop and ran out with a hand full of tracksuits.

Now I'm no expert on looting, but if you was going to loot a clothes shop, surely you'd have a go at Burtons or better, not some chavvy sports shop.

Race-card will be coming out soon.