Nobody is down playing our win last night, it was a very good England win that showed grit and determination.

To your first point, the bulk of that kiwi squad are based in Australia and play for Australian clubs.

Your other point where you said it was raining when we played the kiwis in the world cup last year, it wasn`t raining, they blew us away in dry conditions. They showed some of the highlights of that game in the build up on sky.

As for your point about us beating the world cup winners, at leasst 8 of the Kiwis world cup winning team didn`t even travel over to play.

Southern hemispehere teams like to move the ball along the line at every available oppertunity, those conditions last night didn`t allow for that which is why it became a game down the middle for the majority of the night and its why we didn`t see much back play with ball in hand from both sides, both the kiwi and england half backs were spectators for a lot of the game.

Rain and a greasy pitch will always be a leveller to a certain extent when your coming up against sides that like to move the ball along the line at pace, compare the speed at which the aussies and kiwis move the ball in dry conditions to how we moved it against France and Wales, the difference is like night and day.

Even you can`t be that blinkered to say that wet conditions wouldn`t be an advantage to us against either the kiwis or australia.

Also remind us all of who Saints got knocked out by in this year's Cup competition??...

Quote ="JWP"It rains an awful lot in NZ, Rob. The players will be familiar with playing in those conditions. Nothing to do with conditions, our pack simply got on top of theirs. End of discussion. Didn't think either backline was too flash, it was whoever got on top in the middle, would go on to win. I think the last World Cup, when NZ did a job on us, it was in wet conditions then, we just weren't good enough that night, we were last night. We were in danger of getting reffed out of it in the first half but did well during that period. I don't think we should 'downplay' this win, far from it. It was the World Champions out there, who drew with Australia a fortnight back, enjoy the win, in fact talk it up, why not, we're all quick to criticise defeat, we should celebrate success in equal measure, not look for ways to 'dumb it down'.'" www.emigratenz.org/NewZealandCli ... l#auckland this would seemingly back up your statement

Quote ="JWP"It rains an awful lot in NZ, Rob. The players will be familiar with playing in those conditions. Nothing to do with conditions, our pack simply got on top of theirs. End of discussion. Didn't think either backline was too flash, it was whoever got on top in the middle, would go on to win. I think the last World Cup, when NZ did a job on us, it was in wet conditions then, we just weren't good enough that night, we were last night. We were in danger of getting reffed out of it in the first half but did well during that period. I don't think we should 'downplay' this win, far from it. It was the World Champions out there, who drew with Australia a fortnight back, enjoy the win, in fact talk it up, why not, we're all quick to criticise defeat, we should celebrate success in equal measure, not look for ways to 'dumb it down'.'" www.emigratenz.org/NewZealandCli ... l#auckland this would seemingly back up your statement

Great Coach, not afraid to try something different, glad weve got him at Warrington, best coach by a country mile.

We Beat 3 of the top 5 . Hkr .. Wigan ..... Hudds...... when we played those three iirc they were all on top form too..... oh yeah and at some point during the season all those 3 Handed out a good beating to Saint too ..... Bye now

Nobody is saying that it doesn`t rain in New Zealand or in fact parts of australia like Melbourne and Canberra, parts of NZ has a similar climate to what we have in the uk.

The point is that the bulk of the kiwi squad are based in australia and play their rugby in a far better overall climate, southern hemsiphere teams like the aussies and kiwis move the ball across the line at a far quicker pace than we do, their pivots and backs are more skilful with ball in hand. Add rain to the equasion and it eliminates a alot of the threat.

We played the conditions better last night, the weather eliminated an expansive game which played to our strengths, before the tournament started the majority of people were saying how good our pack looked but the three quarters looked weak.

It will be similar next week if we get wet conditions as it will blunt what the aussie backline is capable of, a game down the middle and we have a chance but if it becomes a game of how skilful and creative both sets of backs are then we will lose. Its not rocket science really.

Only on here can we go from discussing the national coach, to talking about the weather in New Zealand.

you could`nt make it up...must be another bitter and twisted soul...theres quite a few who did`nt like us winning the cup that spout utter bilge on here....

Smith is just cashing in on having a world class set of players at his disposal which was left to him by Jimmy Lowes. It's like Rafa Benitez built his rep on one season winning the Champions League with basically a great team which Houllier had left for him.

Absolutely. Furthermore, neither Smith nor Rafa had ever achieved anything at their previous clubs, so their lack of sustained success in their career shows they're flash in the pans, who've got by with massive luck.

what great team...veronin,lucas,that clown of a greek defender..talk some sense or say nowt

Oooooo the irony!

Like I say, Rafa won the Champions League on the back of great team which Houllier left for him. Voronin and Lucas weren't part of that team it was built on Houllier's boys, Dudek, Traore, Kewell, Smicer etc....all who Benitez got rid of to bring in his new super signings.

and great they are...not fit for warrington town

Agree with you there, the only one who Warrington Town would have is Torres, maybe Benayoun

One of Burnleys greatest heroes.

Well done to Tony Smith.

He obviously learned from his mistakes in Australia with regards to having team mates room together.

[urlhttp://www.wiganwarriors.com/news_full.asp?newsid=5282[/url

I've said this in the International thread, TS does make mistakes but he learns from them.
I don't think we'll see such an overcompressed defence lining up against Aus in their half this time

Before Smith took over it looked possible we would finish third from bottom, I noticed this season how easy it was to beat Wigan by watching the saints. For gods sake he is decent coach ,He did say he can't put it right in one season, but he is doing a reasonable job at the moment. Ok Kiwi's are crap tho they did beat the aussies and it was close last week. We probably won't win, but we'll never match there depth. Over here we're a minor sport whilst there they are like footballers

Wrong in what way? Most criticism I read came in the light of some poor decisions he made. They must have been poor as he, himself, has chosen to correct them. You can't have it both ways. Either the decisions were wrong and therefore deserving of criticism, or he's got it wrong now by changing his original correct decisions.

Having said that, all credit to him for having the strength to make the neccessary calls. Well done Tony!

Just one other thing; from your comment above I take it, should England get beat on Saturday, that you'll be visiting the Wigan and Saints board to tell us what a crap coach TS is and how you got it wrong? Thought not.

C'Mon England (and TS!

)

He got loads of stick for not playing Tomkins against France on here which led to the likes of Odemwingie claiming he was a disgrace and had ruined Englands chances well OTT after one bloody game.

He's a good club coach and crap international coach, he hasnt got a clue, were going to get drubbed every game...mindless stuff like that.

But surely that's a decision that comes unde the heading 'one he got wrong', given he has seen fit to correct it and has played Tomkins ever since? In which case, wasn't the criticism justified?

Don't come on here with your well-reasoned argument - it won't cut much ice, more's the pity.

Well again, to be fair, up to that point his performances as coach in both the World Cup and up to last weeks game in this competition (remember we lost to the Aussies and played poorly against France) suggested this was the case. Even now, we have only had one good win in this comp. Perhaps if we win the tournament, there would be an argument to say he's proved his critics wrong... but after 1 win? Personally I like the way he seems to be addressing the problems as they come up (ineffectual half back pairing and the shocking right side defense for example) but I think it's too early to say he's 'proven' himself as an International coach after just one complete performance.