Lucky HKR didn't get through, the trip to the Maracana would have been a bugger for the Wigan fans.

It's all about perception though.

The figures you quote are a little out too, as we don;t have a 12k or a 22k stadium to debate.

Empty seats galore for a cup semi final suggests that we just couldn;t sell the tickets. Sponsors and potential partners will be impressed with a packed Halton Stadium with a fantastic atmosphere.

I suspect the RFL use games like this, Wembley and Old Trafford to court new sponsors and partners.

We had 30k at Edinburgh and all people did was moan about the empty seats!

Not a chance, the only time that number of sales has come anywhere near is when Leeds and Saints play.



Probably true, but of course how many complaints will they have by fans saying the stadium isnt big enough.




I think it shows Saints season ticket holders don't bother with semis any more, especially as it's "only" Huddersfield. When Hudds played Leeds in 2006 they got a 12574 crowd.

The fixture dictates the stadium, not the other way around, you might as well say 5,000 empty seats in an 50k stadium is just as good.

Rlfans made up fact of the day.

Really?

2008 Galpharm - 24500 - Leeds v Saints 19842
2008 Keepmoat - 15321 - Hull FC v Wakefield 14716
2007 Halliwell Jones - 13024 - Catalans v Wigan 10218
2007 Galpharm 24500 - St Helens v Bradford 14316
2006 Odsal 27000 - Hudds Leeds - 12574
2006 Galpharm 24500 - Hull KR Saints 12868
2005 Galpharm 24500 - Hull FC Saints 16171
2005 Galpharm 24500 - Leeds Tolouse 10553
2004 Halton Stad - Warrington Wigan 11175
2004 Halliwell Jones 14200 - Hudds Saints 13124
2003 McAlpine 24500 - Leeds Saints 19118
2003 McAlpine 24500 - Bradford Wigan 15359
2002 Headingley 22000 - Cas Wigan 10380
2002 JJB 25000 - Leeds Saints 17475
2001 JJB 25000 - Leeds Saints 16416
2001 McAlpine 24500 - Bradford Warrington 13856

Like to try again?

I apologise, I thought you were referring to general Super League fixtures.

And it would be. Surely?

Deepdale <24,000 Reebok <28,000

I've seen that the most expensive tickets are priced £25, most of which will actually be took by corporate and sponsors. Not exactly promoting a family atmosphere.

Be much better to charge £15/£10 all around the stadium and make the effort like the Wigan and Leeds 'big one' are trying to do.

A capacity crowd of 13,350 is nothing to be pleased about. Wigan and Warrington get that in a normal league game. RFL have shot themselves in the foot big time. It may not sell out, but will sell less tickets than if it was at a bigger ground.

Agree with you on this one, the RFL should have looked at bigger stadiums like the Reebok.

People watching the Challenge Cup semis on TV as newcomers to the game will think the sport is small time, hosting semi finals of the RFL's flagship competition at Ikea flatpack stadia.

But had we sold 18k we would have had 10k empty seats at the Reebok.

Also, how much extra does a football stadium cost to hire anyway, if it was available at all?

I covered myself really by saying 'up to 20k'. As seen at the Wigan v Catalans Semi, Wigan took 8 or 9k to that game, I would be surprised if demand wasn't higher for this game for their fans.

We took a good 6k to the Widnes semi in 2004, and that was with the same restrictions as now (1 ticket per Season Ticket).

Wigan and Wire have had limited success recently, and I think with the right stadium, the right pricing, and the right ticketing rules, there could be up to 20k there.

That said, I am not too critical of the RFL, as I think their options were limited.

Only in the minds of fans. In reality, when people have to pay above and beyond their season ticket the figures don't hold out.



Which is twice as much capacity as required.



Back to, lets drop the price and hope more people come. The ticket prices are cheaper for kids and concessions than they were 5 years back. The semi final has a value, I don't hear anyone complaining about ticket prices.



Now you're just being silly and illogical.

But they didn't, they maybe took 5k with around 2-3k extra neutral sales and corporate plus a lot of comp tickets.



We took 5600 in 2004 and had three lots of tickets after Wigan only sold 3750. The actual attendance on the day was just over 10k



Sorry but the figures just don't show that to be the case, it's same argument people use for early rounds and simply doesn't play in practice.
Have a look at the semi figures I posted before, even if are "slightly inflated" we'd be lucky to get 14k for a semi which means a full Stobart.

I'm not convinced by your claim that only half the people in the HJ for the Wigan game were Wigan fans, but that is a minor point.

Look, I am not disagreeing with the principle of what you are saying, but one of the reasons the Semi final crowds have gone down, IMO, is due to some of the small time thinking of the RFL (more evident in their Test venues).

I have made the point before, maybe in this thread, but they have made it pretty difficult to get new fans to attend these games alongside season ticket holders. I have made the point, that instead of the three tickets I will be purchasing, had the rules been different, I could have bought 10 or 12 tickets, attracting some potential new fans to this game. I have other friends and family interested in this, however as we are getting our tickets tomorrow, they probably wont bother.

I work in Chester, and know a few people who would be interested in watching a game, this is a perfect one to get them involved. I can't do that under these rules.

Like I said earlier, if Saints had their new 18k stadium available, I have no doubts that would have been used, and the crowd would be higher than we will get at Widnes, as there could have been some relaxation of the rules.

Saints fans can get 4 per ticket, and Hudds fans have no limits at all.

Again, look at the figures I posted, the Galpharm/McAlpine with a capacity of 24500 has been used 8 out of the last 16 semi finals and the closest it came to selling out was almost 5k below capacity. Headingley at 22k, The JJB at 25k and Odsal at 27k have all been used - as I said before the fixture now fits the venue.



I agree, there is a possibility for new fans, but equally there is space at a normal league game to tempt people. The extra capacity for the precious semi finals didn't make much headway though, I'm not sure how other teams sell their allocation.



So why not another big game? Saints, Wigan and Leeds at the Haliiwell Jones offer similar for a first timer.



It's nice to think that would be the case.



See my previous comment on why I think that is.

=redNot at all, a crowd grows to fill the space. You'll laugh and point at the simplicity of what I'm going to say next but, a Cup final between Warrington and Wigan would have more people there than a league game.
With the right marketing and the right 'magic' we can generate a feeling in Warrington and the whole of the Rugby League community that the cup is indeed not dead. If the game was in a ground that was [ijust[/i ten thousand capacity more than what they have now. It would give many people the chance to bring friends/family/ partners (maybe for first time?) and with a special cup price, what better time to sample a glamour tie in a glamourous stadium.

Setting the [uSemi Final[/u in a venue which has a lower capacity than a average attendance between the two sends out the completely wrong message*

Now...I'm sure I've missed something out. But there are my thoughts.

Ah, most likely the match may sell out or be very close to capacity within a matter of weeks. Groups of 4/5/6 will not be able to get tickets as seats will only be available in ones and twos. Fans and non fans will read about the game happening at short notice in newspapers, see on television in adverts and news features. If people decide late they want to go we should be able to accommodate them, instead they will not be able to go and will turn away.

Maybe something else I've missed but it's late and i hope you find my arguments reasonable and thought out, even if you don't agree with them.


[size=75*not 10000% a accurate figure[/size

Main reason tbh is due to me moving my ticket into the East Stand for this season, so it is more difficult to get tickets together. There is also less of a sense of occasion to getting a new fan in. I'll keep working on them, but this type of game is perfect to attract new fans.

I think the fact that they would have the opportunity to watch a Cup Semi Final is the lure here though rather than a normal league game.

League games and cup games have different atmospheres and to a certain extent are played differently due to the prize on offer.

I left Wife and kids at parents on Saturday before I went to Hull, my parents watched their first ever game of rugby league because the daughter wanted to watch it and where apparently enthralled and actually talked about going to the semi, little chance of that now.

I actually disagree 100% i know many people who said they would go, only for them not to, a cup semi final is totally different to a 'regular' league game. After all, we have a perfect example, when other would so many Warrington fans attend a Wigan v Catalan game. And it wasn't just because it was [iin[/i Warrington.

Sorry for butting in on another discussion between you two but according to this you would agree that a bigger stadium would mean more people. Which is what you called silly!







If it wasn't up for you to pay the man, where would you want the Semi finals held?

Get them to the Bradford game Geordie & let them see you in action!

Interesting debate this.

If demand outsrips demand then the RFL can be criticised for their choice of venue. We had these exact same posts in 2004 and the ground was well, well under capacity. Both club's crowds may have grown since then but I suspect the 'core' support is relatively stable.

There may be season ticket holders who would ordinarily pick up a few extra tickets for mates/colleagues/friends but the reality is those people will be able to go to the game in all liklihood. I suppose it might be frustrating that they can't sit together but this game may well not sell out. I very much doubt walk up fans will be put off by the capacity issue.

As an aside, in the unlikely event that the ground is too small for this game, maybe it will be a blessing in disguise. If Che Smith continues in this vein, we'll hopefully be playing more and more big games - it would be fantastic if one of the reasons people bought season tickets is because they wanted to 'guarantee' entry to big matches.

THANKS PAUL

As far as i can see the Stobart Stadium holds 13,500, I imagine that the RFL are holding back 2,500 until demand outstrips the supply.
5,500 tickets for each club is enough to cover the amount of regular match attendees, by this i mean Season Tickets holders and those who pay on the door every week.
Not every Season ticket holder will attend the Semi-Final, let's say we have 6,000 Season Tickets i can bet 2,500 of those wont show up maybe due to holidays, financial climate etc etc plus people don't go to away games full stop unless it's a final (i know plenty) so the other 2,000 tickets will cover those people who pay on the door.

The game may not be a sell out but it could get close but at least the people who deserve tickets have got them, the only negative point to playing at Widnes is that people can't sit together due to it being reserved and due to the Warrington club new ticket scheme people cant take friends who also have auntie's and uncle's who don't know the shape of the ball. I have no problem in borrowing out season tickets if there not being used but why should these people who probably haven't been to a game this year have a god given right to get a ticket.

If we were to go to Huddersfield i believe more people would fall by the wayside because of the further travel distance, petrol cost etc etc plus the stadium would look half empty on television.

I wonder what the queue is like at the moment, with an hour to go till the tickets go on sale?