Are you alluding to our new fitness and conditioner prodigal son and former scapegoat 'par excellance'?

I wasn't but that could be a very good idea. There does seem to be a great tradition on the forum though of deflating the reputations of one time heroes.

Is that why someone mentioned Wedge, as a pro scapegoat? Actually I was a real fan of his and didn't understand the criticism, same with JC (the hooker not the one they based a religion on).

Wainwright in the 2004 season for example had the highest missed tackle rate, the 3rd highest penalty count and 4th highest error rate in the entire side.

In the 2005 season, again highest missed tackle rate, 2nd highest error and 2nd highest penalty count.

He improved a bit in 2006 with 3rd, 6th, 3rd in those stats.

2007 back to 2nd of the missed tackle count behind Briers and 4th on penalties although his errors had reduced.

I'm sure he is a very nice chap and all but he can't escape some criticism.

Do you class Wainwright and Jon Clarke as "heroes" or was your post tongue in cheek (as I suspect).

Which other heroes have had their reputation deflated on here?

I didn't actually bring Jon Clarke's name into it....tbh i always thought he was a valuable team member ,nothing special but reliable at 9 & good in defence & Wainwright was really just a club player who turned up & did what was asked of him.

I think Roy was the classic so called superstar who was expected to do things but didn't & was crucified on here ,with Trent Waterhouse before him, Then Vinnie Anderson who seemed so good at Saints but was only a shadow of his former self playing for us. Need i mention Rauhihi & Sullivan & Rodwell's gang of misfits,although i don't know if the forum was up & running then.

Let's please not write a revisionist history on Wainwright

He was also second highest tackler, second in marker tackles, third in carries and actually joint fourth in errors along with 3 other forwards, so its not like 4th is particularly damning.

As i recall cullen used to work him to death as is backed up with these stats, and at the time lots of people did wonder why the hell wedge never got subbed despite clearly being shagged out. You get the same with westwood now, missed tackles and penalties down to fatigue. But its down to how much work they actually do.

I'm never gonna say he was a superstar but he was a workhorse fixture in the side.

EDIT, 3 other forwards, as westwood wasn't a forward then was he.

I quite liked Wedge for his hardwork, not a superstar as you say, and some of his decision making on passing was poor and he was prone to Knocking on. My post was in reply to that where the poster couldn't understand why he got some criticism and I suggested some areas that could be picked on.

i've made this point on here before, and i stand by it, wedge got more unfounded criticism while here, because he wasn't paul sculthorpe. Both came through same time, wainwright was injured while scully was on the rise in 96 and part of 97, when scully left, we were left with wainwright.

Plus them offloads, which were good offloads, we just didn't seem to care to back them up. They weren't rauhihi chook it the fook anywhere ones.

Doesn't that sort of imply he passed to no-one?

I would like to see his 'knock-on' stats.

I agree. He followed in the shadow of Skully.
He was always going to be judged upon that high standard.

To bad Wedge isn't with us now, we've lacked a loose of his calibre for too long.
I don't know why since we dispensed with him and moved to a different type of player?
Since Forshaw until the present day, the ball playing skills has disappeared from our team. I miss that.
How I wish we could find a loose like John Pendlebury. Still if we did, I doubt very much TS would ever play him, we'd end up bolstering the pack with poor lower grade pack players instead.

Not SOME criticism, he was lambasted and scapegoated. And the offloads were NOT passing to nobody, he consistently got his arms free and offloaded EXPECTING his team mates to back up. Perhaps his biggest error was thinking any of them would actually bother. If you know your team mate has that skill shouldn't you be following him around like a dog follows a bitch on heat?

Rauhihi had similar problems when he made breaks & nobody backed him up.

I agree with the Captain, some of the criticism Wedge got was completely unjustified, he was the resident scape goat. His work rate and tackling were examples sadly not followed by his team mate. Yes he offered the ball sometimes where caution was perhaps the better option but where was the support?. If memory serves, didn't he get player of the year one year?
Not a glamorous superstar but a worthy member of the team at that time.

Anyway, back to the thread topic..... a decent first season for Simms, not the barn storming prop we were hoping for but from all accounts he was never going to be that. Great character and spirit together with a good work rate and a great bloke to have around in what has been a sad directionless camp this year. If he cuts out the brain explosions which to be fare to him may be pure frustration in the lack of passion from some of his team mates.

Roll on next season ...... it could be our year....... crikey I hope so

Good to see some back up on my Wedge thoughts. I genuinely think he would slot into today's game very well.

He wouldn't be at Warrington as a 13 - TS simply wants a prop playing there.
I'd much prefer it if we had a ball playing 13.
I suppose he'd be a Ben Currie type second rower rather than a Benny one.

Liked Wedge though. Possibly playing a style that was a few years ahead of his time.

not really... if grix was fit, he would be 13.... smith is playing prop like players there because he has no others.

the 13 role, as a specialist position, seems to have died away.

Back on thread

Not interested in stats. I simply watch the game.

I'd rate him as good.
He's not exactly "ripped up trees", but then again, hasn't shirked any responsibity. Doesn't break enough tackles. He's just a more agile version of Steve Molloy, who again, fitted that description.

Needs to improve more. As a consequence, so will the team.

...as did John Fieldhouse.

Too good of a player that we just couldn't utilise, watching on as his passes often found touch, as there wasn't a 1/4 line player clever enough to shadow him.
He left us and went on to become one of the best forwards of his time, and was awarded GB caps, and put us out of the CC with one such pass! for us just another scapegoat.

An offload has to be controlled from a call from the support player. Otherwise it is just a loose ball.

Some daft comments being made here.

That's what I was thinking. Blaming a none-existent back up runner, rather than the chap in possession, for an offload to no-one seems a little strange.

Fair point.

I wonder if Alfie Langer had to call for a pass from Andrew Gee every single time!?