We're not making the top 6 and we're definitely not tilting at the GF.

No you are incorrect. Last 10 seasons starting 2013 season we have won 1 major trophy. The CC in 2019. If you want to count League Leaders shields we are grasping at straws.

The point being we have been poor for a while, massively underachieved for a decade. Being beaten in finals doesnt wind my watch nor should I imagine the fans of Saints, Wigan, Leeds.

Of course, but my point was that it's a poor medium for comparison when Powell's been here half a season, Price 4 and Smith 9 years (I think).

Whether you want him out or not he's not going to be sacked now that we're probably safe from relegation. However the season is a right off, our defence is ridiculously soft and the attack is woeful, especially when we eventually get in their 20. He's signed Minikin, Holmes, Amor and for some bizarre reason wants a past it Ratchford as his stand off for the next 2 years.

The culture probably needed to be changed and Powell has definitely done that but it doesn't look to have changed for the better.

With the squad we have next year we should be challenging for everything and not be accepting anything else. If performances are anything like this year then I'm sure the Board will sack him although I'm not sure when we last did that to a coach.

Last Wire coach to be sacked, was Paul Cullen.

His successor James Lowes was demoted when Tony Smith was appointed, but stayed on until Leeds offered him a job as an Assistant Coach.

Thought Cullen resigned

We are safe from relegation?.. Really?



On the relegation subject though, what do we consider as the safety threshold, points wise?.. Surely 14 isn't enough?

1 more win should do it. Thankfully we don't have to play Wakefield again.

He resigned when Doug Hoyle and SJM told him he was being sacked.

It looks better on your CV, if you left by your own volition, but that`s all.

"1 more win should do it. Thankfully we don't have to play Wakefield again"





crikey that's a relief ....

You reckon?... so 16 points?

London finished bottom with 20 pts a few years ago. With the way the bottom half of the table is cramped, we could be looking at similar again?

Good question, I'd say 2 more wins, though I'll get a squeaky brown button if Wakey go on a roll

What a sorry situation we are in when I'd be chuffed to get 16 points in a season. I can't see Wakey winning 3 more games than us so hopefully we can win on Friday but that's not a given.

Sadly, you've summed us up in a few words.
I've not felt so low, since the Reggie Bowden 84/5 season. I'm not saying the players are angels. I've no idea if they are (as have 99.9% of the posters on here). I'm just wondering if Powell is the "bad apple".

I wonder if he's created more "bad apples" than he started with.

If admin and mods wish to place this into a thread already in existence by all means.

My Queation is have the club made a mistake in bringing in daryl Powell.

Was there ever a culture change needed at the club. Were players ever too big for the club. Maybe. Have some of the players been lazy and clocked off defienently.

I would be interested to know what the big culture change was that needed addressing. Or is it the management of the club. Daryl Powell and Ryan Sheridan who have adversely changed the culture of the club to something that is counter productive.

Something still is not right within the club. I believe someone mentioned it in another thread. 14 of the 17 who played against cas on Saturday are players who will be at the club next year.

So if those same 14 players who are going to be with us next year are losing to cas and Wakefield and putting in performances that are not upto standard. Surely something much deeper is at work here. Isn't Powell supposed to get the most out of his players.

Do we cut our losses. And replace Powell before things get worse and look to bring back Tony Smith to steady the ship and move us back into the right direction
He came back to superleague and took a average hull kr side to within 80 minutes of a grand final. This season. As he hilighted previously when he announced his departure. That the club and himself were not on the same path. So decided to cut his losses.

So the question I pose.
Do we stick at it and hold our nerve with daryl Powell. Who by no means is bad. He was the genesis of the golden Leeds era. He brought Shinfield. Maguire. Burrow. JJB and others From the academy and brought in peacock from Bradford to lead the forwards.
Or
Do we bring back home Tony Smith to steady the ship. Get the best out of what we have going forward and hopefully move us forward into 2023 as he did when he came in at the start of 09.

I don't know. Daryl Powell has the credentials to make a great team but lead a great team I'm not so sure. Whereas. Tony Smith. Took a average team in 09. Made us challenge Cup winners. (Alot of the same players were cullen signings) improved the players. (Briers had his best years 09-13) and bought in some truely world class talent in atkins. Solomona. Myler. Hodgson. Joel monaghan. Trent. Ratch. Hill. Clark. Hiku. Gidley. Lineham as well as bringing Cooper back from the nrl.
There wasn't even many signings 10-16. 24 signings compared to prices 26 in 4 years.

If I had to choose. Maybe we need to settle the ship a bit. The ship is rudderless at the moment and its like we are the titanic about to hit the iceberg at the moment.


Views..

We don't need another thread is my view.

My view is that the post was a decent read, but then lost all credibility when describing myler and ratchford as world class talent!

Struggling to see the funny side when we're four points from the drop, and so inconsistent it's difficult to see where the next win will come from to survive.

Twice this season we've gone through a pattern of lose five, win one, lose one, win one. If we lose the next four before we get another win we'll go down. It really is as simple as that.

Yes.

Next...!

No you are incorrect... 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013 and 2012, that's 10 seasons. So 2 Challenge Cups in 2012 and 2019, and a League Leaders Shield is still a trophy and a difficult task to achieve.

Are we supposed to expect every Grand Final to be easy? The point of it being the Grand Final is that it's the 2 best teams, so we aren't always going to win.

We have won 40% of our Finals appearances which is competitive. And we have won 6 trophies since Smith came in. We didn't even win one in the Super League era before that. Averaging a trophy roughly every 2 seasons since Smith. That's definitely not underachieving.

I'll be honest, I'm very much up and down when it comes to Powell.

As I have said many times on other threads, we won a trophy in Smith and Price's first full seasons, so why should we expect anything less than a trophy this time.

I think Daryl is a great bloke. And I don't think anyone would really disagree, but we can literally see with our own eyes that we are slow, unorganised and we lack creativity in attack. I'll repeat my usual description again... 13 men stood in a line waiting to collect the ball and see what happens.

This is specifically what bugs me, and why it's hard to defend him. So I'll try to break it down:
- Powell said on the Wire Podcast that he has certain lines that he likes to run. So that's how we look in attack.
- We have speculated about bad apples and players bringing in a bad culture.
- If Powell believes we have certain players contributing to a bad culture, then they should not even be training, let alone playing.
- Powell consistently says that we have trained well, near enough week in week out. And we know he likes to be honest about the group, especially when things are poor.
- So if we have been training well all week, running the lines that Powell wants to run... Why do we look so ineffective with the ball?

That's what leads me to believe that it's a Daryl Powell issue. Contrary to that, if certain players just aren't running the lines that he wants, surely they have to be dropped, which in fairness some players have been. Or we have moved people around.

In terms of attack, we are 7th in Super League. Better than Wakefield, Toulouse, Leeds, Hull KR and Hull FC, scoring 20 points per game on average.
For our defence, we are 10th in Super League. Better than Wakefield and Toulouse, conceding 24 points per game on average.
This then makes me think about removing Sheridan from his role, as I believe he's the defensive coach from what I remember. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe we'd be right up there in a Playoff position, or better off for the rest of the season if he wasn't here.

I cannot express how excited I am for next season in terms of recruitment. Just imagining Dudson and Vaughan at prop with Harrison, Mikaele and Kasiano coming off the bench. What a forward pack that is. And I understand that if the forwards are winning the battle in the middle it opens up more opportunities for the backs. And with Dufty still possibly on his way, he could be very effective, which might mean we shove Thewlis out to the wing or means he doesn't get a game which is unfortunate either way. But this is what reels me back in with Powell. Maybe the lines he likes to run would look so much more effective behind a dominant forward pack. But what I'm currently seeing is such a boring product. I just don't want to see more of it next season.

He's bringing in players that he wants, he's changing the culture, he's removing players he thinks aren't needed and he's said many times that he wants to build a Championship winning team, for multiple years. Personally, I feel that he MUST win a trophy next season or he has got to go, unless we have been right up there in all competitions all season.

I'm currently in the 'Powell Out' camp and I'm more than happy to be proven wrong for next season. Or even this season, as I'm quite an optimistic person naturally, so all I want us to do is make playoffs. Not because it looks better on paper for the season, but because it actually means we get a crack at winning the Grand Final. Call me delusional of course, but as long as we make playoffs, we can win it. Maybe we find some form in the last couple of weeks, a bit like Hull KR last year. We've beaten 4 of the Top 6 once already, with a very close game against Saints. We could beat any one of those 4 teams on the day again, and we know we have it in us to go toe to toe with Saints for 80 minutes. We were a decent Wrench grubber kick away from winning that game. Maybe someone has an off day, you just never know.

It's so hard to defend Powell but I'm willing to keep backing the lads for the rest of the season, but then back Powell next season when he has exactly what he wants.

Without rabbiting on again, I think next week's game has to see effort throughout and I think we need to see a win.

If we're poor next week, then it's not going to be good and I would totally understand people wanting him out.

Why on earth would Miguel Maguire come over here and coach this shambles?



More chance of getting Harry Maguire.

I’m going to start a new thread on Powell on the back of this….