I felt like I was screaming on a donkey at the grand national when he got that ball. That should have been a try; no doubt.

This is the second time we have been disappointed with a wingers pace this season and I can see where the seeds of doubt have come from.

However, as i have said we have wingers with pace. I think even Williams has more pace than what we saw last week. (I think chasing down the Try line to get back into a game against Wigan, in the CC, would inspire more gusto than chasing a Hull player with 20 yards in a game you are almost destined to lose)

However, I remember hearing (as i was unable to attend) that Joel was able to chase down a Hull KR player who had the gap on him.

I am sure the players have bad days and good days and on another day maybe Joel would have reached fifth gear faster but we are forgetting that try that Joel scored at Huddersfield or the several against Leeds that required herculean effort and skill.

We have wingers who have pace, just some have had a few bad days. It isn't like we have Meli and Gardner as wingers. Perspective is in order.

I agree to a certain extent with Riley's attacking ability. However, i have my heart in my mouth every time he jumps out of the line in defence. He creates major gaps that shouldn't be there. You do not see that from Wigan, or even saints. Plus that running ahead of the centre is very annoying. These are basics for a winger. Protect the line and to support the centre. He fails on both and I can see why Tony Smith feels he doesn't have the time for him. I personally would give him time and schooling and another chance.

Not sure Joel can be considered a great finisher if you couldn't score a try that some prop forwards would have ran in! Pace isn't the crucial attribute for a winger anymore, unfortunately. They need to have power and good feet, but able to claim cross field kicks. The also need to be positionally astute and strong in defence and be able to make good decisions.

Riley has pace, but lacks most of the other key atrributes listed above. Monaghan has most of the above, but is unfortunately seemingly the slowest winger going. I'd know who I'd rather have in a tight game against the top teams though.

In terms of picking side for next season, Bridge is our best centre, so one of Atkins, Monaghan, Evans and Ratchford will take the other centre position. Unless Bridge will move to loose forward, with Harrison used as a prop.

For me Rhys Williams is a decent squad player but won't get near the 17 when all are fit. Don't get what Rhys brings that Chris Riley doesn't and what warrants Chris' exclusion from virtually every SL round this year then farmed out to Quins for some game time. The lad has done well for us imo and I'd be glad to see back in the side for this weekend (injury allowing). However its more likely he'll be playing FB in the U20's.

Not for me he is not, yes, he is a cracking support player but when we have looked to him for inspiration, he has been sorely lacking. The Cup game summed him up, Monaghan and Hodgson running round for England trying to create something, anything, so what did our number 7 do or create, not good enough yet.

Jack

I'd say thats inevitable over time which is why i suggested earlier about moving Bridge to 13 to accomodate Joel Monaghan at right centre, Grix is very solid but i think his best use would be as a squad player.

You generally don't have backs on the bench these days which is why Bridge would need to start somewhere in the team, its normally 2 props, an impact hooker and a utility player that can play in the back row as well as cover a few other positions ala Solomona who can cover 13 at a push, 2nd row, stand off at a push or even be used as an extra prop if need be.

You wouldn't leave Solomona out for Grix on the bench as you need as much impact as possible from your bench, players that can change games ala Solomona last saturday until he got injured.

I'd still like us to go with a backline that has Monaghan and Ratchford as the centres, Ryan Atkins with his blistering pace on the left wing and either Rhys Evans or Riley on the other wing outside of Monaghan. I just think a combination of Ratchford and Atkins would be more leathel than a combination of Atkins and either Riley or Williams.

Some posters have been raving about some of the tries that Ratchford set up for Broughton whilst at centre, i'd like to see how he would go with Atkins on his outside.

We need to get some pace onto our wings somehow, its all well and good saying we have scored X amount of points in the league but we failed in our first big test of the season which would lead to possible silverware, a lack of pace on the wing was one of the big turning points in that game.

No more than a poorly judged kick from Michael Monaghan. Regardless of Joel's treacle induced effort, we should have scored on the next phase anyway.

Just because Atkins is quick, doesn't mean he is/will be a great winger. Evans looked far more effective in the centres this season, compared to being shipped out to the wing.

He's already played on the wing for us, him and King used to rotate round during games. The majority of players these days at professional level have to be adaptable and add utility value to a squad, it doesn't mean that because Ryan Atkins is a centre he has to stay there.

Have a look around SL, their are a lot of players that have switched back and too between their recognised positions, thats called having flexibilty in your squad when needed. Joel Tomkins, Sam Tomkins, Francis Meli, Lee Gilmore, Leroy Cudjoe and both Gareth Ellis and Sam Burgess whilst at Leeds and the Bulls just to name a few.

The thing with all this, is that there are probably only 6 or 7 games when a coach can put out what he considers to be his best 17. The rest of the season there are always a number of players missing, so its how the 17 looks with any combination of 2 or 3 first choice players missing.

So Briers and Myler will both miss a few games and Ratchford will fill in for both, plus we will have Gaz O'Brien back. I think we have plenty of coverage elsewhere although I'm more worried about 2013 when we will likely lose Hodgson, Briers, Carvell and Morley and key players like Monas and Benny Westwood (and Waterhouse) will be well intio their 30's.

I'm not a massive fan of Williams, he is decent, but I'd just like to know what Riley offers us that he doesn't?

Well, a PROVEN try scoring rate, for one
Riley's tries do take some scoring. Every time I see a Williams try, it's been something little more than getting the ball 3 yards out, and falling over the line.

Not a direct question to Lord Tony Smith, but a general one to everyone on here....ask yourself this...would Williams have scored that try v Bradford (a) last season (the 100 yarder with a chip and chase involved)...and the answer is...never in a million years

I know we can't have a side full of superstars, but Williams is just NOT the answer to our wing spot (imo).

He also has the worst side step in rugby so much so that it isn't even a side step more of a tribute to The Bangles walk like an Egyptian

They almost have the same flaws, just differing body shapes. Of the two, I just about prefer Riley, only because I think he looks marginally more likely to make a break for himself.

Problem is, If (I haven't a clue) he earns double what Williams does, yet he's not double better, he might get the door shown, like Kev Penny, who I don't think Smith disliked, he just didn't represent value for money.

Neither have this bit of class, like say a Kallum Watkins has when you watch him although I always think when watching on SKY you end up 'rating' other players higher, you're more critical of your own, it's like having kids.

I do get the feeling that certain players are just treading water with the club.

Mr Smith may well be phasing them out soon and giving the next batch of younger players a chance at proving themselves.

Riley
Williams
Mitchell
McCarthy
Blythe (as well as he has done in patches this season)

They could all find themselves being shunned in favour of players like

B.Evans
Laithwaite
Shaw
Hellewell
Currie
Peasnell

Over the next few seasons we have plenty of good young players coming to an age where they can make their mark on the first team.

I agree with you regarding the try against Bradford, no Williams wouldn't of scored it, but alot of Riley's tries didn't take much scoring.

For what it's worth, I think they are both similar players, I just think Riley cuts in alot more than he should do. I'd have Williams out of the two but not by much.

I wish we still had Kevin Penny. Imagine him taking that intercept, TRY TIME.

+1

I still curse Messrs Cullen and Lowes for totally destroying Kevin's confidence.

Could score tries no other SL player is capable of scoring.

There was an interesting article in this week's League Express that included Smith talking about Riley and how he's fallen behind Evans and Williams in the pecking order. He said all of the things you would expect, he's working hard, knows what he needs to do to get into the team etc. The really interesting bit I thought, was that Smith also mentioned Ryan Shaw and the fact that he probably deserved a run out in the first team.

Hodgson
J Monaghan
Bridge
Atkins
Evans
Briers
Myler
Morley
M Monaghan
Carvell
Waterhouse
Westwood
Grix

Solomona
Harrison
Wood
Ratchford

Has everybody forgotten O'Brian?

who?

Oh Brian Bevan

[urlhttp://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/wolves/wolvesnews/9055548.INJURY_UPDATE__O_Brien_set_for_long_lay_off/[/url him. He will feature at some stage next season. Not that you didn't know who.

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