I don't feel Smith ranks Penny above Ormsby, just that Kev had a good pre-season so got the nod.

So if Gene has earned then fair play to him

TS claims Penny and O'Brien were not scapegoats that although not up to scratch in certain areas a few were sailing close to that also, WA Guardian.

GOB and Penny are easy targets though rather than dropping the big guns..

I fail to see how Penny and Gob were the ones to be dropped. Penny has hardly put a foot wrong this season and with GOB, I can understand him not doing enough to warrant any sort of praise but he certainly hasn't been bad per se, just there, though he will look worse with a beaten pack.

Penny would have got a hatfull if he had started against wakey, with quality ball that Patton was providing, currie also came to life and enjoyed decent ball, to be a winner there has to be losers , and GOB is going to struggle to get back in no communication and goes missing in long spells ,,,king deserves another run, penny ormsby to close to call, but penny for me, I fancy our chances at Wigan, as we finally looked like a team, glad to be there and smiles were returning!!!

As harsh as it may seem to drop GOB and Penny, Smith saw something and decided to make some changes.... yes it was wakefield, but those replacements went really well.

King, Patten and Ormsby should, and probably will keep their place for the Wigan game.

If we are being honest, most have probably written off any hopes of a trophy this season... so game time for these good young players against a 'decent' side is a must.

im much more prepared to see these players given a chance than persisting with something that isnt working... if it means we come up short then thats fine.... its picking the same players when were looking awful thats the issue.

we won 80-0... lets give these players another chance and see how it goes.... its a no pressure game in some respects for them.

I think Penny was unfortunate to get dropped and agree he would have had at least a couple of tries. I think Gene has to stay in the side for the Wigan game because bringing Penny back wouldn't make sense considering Gene went ok on Saturday

I liked the look of Dec Patton. For me he impressed me of someone 'in charge'. Yes, it was only a poor Wakey side but it was a good debut and think he should stay for the Wigan game.

Probably time to look at Atkins as a long term back rower when he returns from injury.

TS had to try something to spark us Penny and O'Brien made way the Atkins injury allowed King in and he started with Roy,it worked, It's not the end for Penny or O'Brien It's nice to have more competition the newcomers took their chances and deserve to be kept in the team.

Wigan I believe are unbeaten at home will have some regulars back in contention so it should be very tight, more important for us is to put in another good team performance.

Is Wheeler injured? or out of favour?

I should hope TS and the players have not written anything off. Finishing in the Top 4 is not beyond us and then it's 2 games to win the league. We have finished in the top 4 for the last 5 years. Cup is wide open as usual.

We haven't won silverware or beat the Pies since Sam Tomkins left them I think.
The sooner he comes back to Wigan the better!

We've won nowt either but his last game went ok

Cant believe you think this, who is the only side to have beaten Leeds?
We have as much chance as the other top teams, and yes we are a top team!! Remember its not how you start but how you finish

I would keep same 17.

I would keep the same team apart from a return for Penny. Wigan have pacey wingers and have a proven threat given space. Penny's cover defence has been excellent thus far and he's probably the only player capable of catching either of the pie wingers. I would be extremely disappointed if he didn't play as he's arguably been our best back along with Ratchford this year.

No Penny in the squad mate. Poor form from Tony if he's been dropped as is thought, like you say he's been excellent for the most part and certainly one of our better players this season.

Penny not been superb, but far from being the worst in the side. Caught inside a lot mainly because Ryan 'I think I'm a premiership footballer' Atkins leaves him constantly exposed by actually being nearer to the posts than the wing

Penny deserves a place for me. He's the fastest man with a ball in hand. Not to mention his defensive stuff, he can out pace anyone on the wing. Tactically we should use him more on the the last play or lower in the tackle count with a chip over when teams like Wigan smother the play the ball area and leave space. We've been caught a few times so far, ie Brown kicking over for the 3rd widnes try and that chip by (I think) the Cas fella who isn't Luke Dorn but looks like him, but can't remember his name. (Too many ales)

Penny is a liability in defence, his positioning is as bad as it always has been.

Sorry, but that's a tired old cliche and just wrong.

He's an easy target as tries have been scored down his wing, but he's been left abandoned on his wing time and time again and has copped the blame for it.

How so. ..... is he coming in tackling a centre that doesn't need tackling and then is done by a simple pass to the winger. ... that's a bad read. ..I haven't seen that from him. ....

Is he standing out on his wing outside his opposite winger miles away from his centre leaving opposition centre and a second row with acres of space to walk into. .... I haven't seen that from him. ..

Has he not made any significant quick reaction ball and all tackles ....arguably try savers. ....because I have seen that. ....


If you mean tries have been scored on his wing you may be right. Guess what that will happen in every game till the end of time. ...teams train to work the over lap...

But like you I like to show off my similar prowess of soccer knowledge with football fans by blaming teams conceding goals squarely at the feet or hands of the goalkeeper. ....how can it be anyone else's fault. ....

Pretty much spot on Biscuit so far Penny has given 100% .

Don't agree with this 'liability in defence' stuff. Ormsby was caught in a similar position on Saturday, but luckily the 2 on 1 came to an interception try, difference being the attack was so poor they couldn't capitalise on the poor 'read' from the inside men.

Wingers have the worst role in defence, if they stay out they are wrong, everyone shouts 'get the man with the ball' in they come in everyone moans 'stay on your man' if you drop for a kick and they get round you you've 'gone wandering' and if you stay up and they kick behind (Brough) you 'should have dropped back'. Can't win if the numbers aren't right, it isn't possible. Your only hope is that the attack get it wrong.

Every winger we have had from B Bevan onwards and no doubt before have been caught by the same things that Penny is being dropped for. This year Penny has been one of our better players and doesn't deserve to be dropped especially for Ormsby. Penny has been the most exciting player on show, more than willing with ball in hand. He has been dropped in the $hite by alleged more experienced players and novices alike. Now that TS has made his decision I wait to see how the speed freak that is Ormsby fairs in both defence and attack against Wigan.