God forbid another 40 years in the wilderness.

Really think we're missing the point completely here. It's runners we need. Centres, second-rowers, wingers with speed.

Stats from all games will show we're making the metres down the middle, but no breaks and the kicks aren't finding anyone.

Like Rhys Evans?

we've got 3/4 and backrowers coming out of our ears....we lack a top notch prop....oh and Danny Brough too.

And TS having the balls to actually drop someone and reward good form like Rhys Evans.

Replace Tony Smith? Ok, who with? If there is a coach with a better record available then bring him in but lets hope he brings a centre, winger, couple of rough ar*e props and a scrum-half with him otherwise we'll be no better off, probably worse.

If I had a criticism of TS it would be misplaced loyalty to certain players. I don't know what Rhys Evans or Dwyer have done to justify their continued absence. J Monas & Bridge committed more defensive howlers in the first half than Riley has all season but will no doubt be in the team next week. M.Monas is a busted flush and has been for 18 months etc. etc.

Having said that, for a clearly intelligent man and astute coach, the pre-season recruitment and some of his team selections of late have been baffling.

We have plenty of good props, we need a centre and a world class half back who can kick.

We're screwed otherwise.

From an outside perspective, individually your players would stand up to pretty much any team in the league (your potentially missing a bit of depth relative to other teams/ years but that's another argument for another day) - what your desperately lacking is organisation, and somebody to march you around the field, and really control the game. A Roby or an Oloughlin would see you right up there, as they lead for their teams imo.

You looked a little bit like saints did last year when lomax and Roby were injured, at the beginning of the year, minus saints had a few bright lights of individual magic (though granted your game style doesn't necessarily suit relying on individual brilliance) - you need to promote someone to "head of the team" and tell all the players that whatever they call, is what's done. Right now it looks like you have higham trying to do something, but ratchford wants to do something different, and then myler wants something else, and the support runners end up confused and look blunted. That plus a bit more strike in your outside backs would go a long way imo.

It's understandable that someone hasn't been brought in, given briers unexpected retirement - but now you need someone to step into that role.

Atkins and Bridge need a trip to Swinton, but to be honest, I'd feel sorry for Swinton having them two useless turds dumped on their lap.

Based on the evidence of this year, we have two - Hill & Wood.

As wood even played yet?

right again morrisseyisawire

Last season was the best I saw Wood play.
He played much above his weight.
But he is injury prone and when even when fit, how can we be a credible threat with just 2 props of stature?
Asotasi is here on holiday and there his words not mine
England is unproven and injury prone.

Absolutely. Asotasi might well be trying his heart out but his body language portrays a man performing the bare minimum of the prop forward job spec. The most intimidating thing about him is his beard.

Perhaps our current plight is best summarised that big Roy represents our marquee signing for the year.

Unfortunately, Roy is only a marquee signing in the sense that he will have cost us a large amount of dosh. But in terms of problems, that is small beer compared to the inability to field an an attacking pair of half backs, at least one of whom can kick. I suspect it will be next season and a certain gentleman's cheque book before that can be rectified.

I reckon we must be £400,000 under cap this season.

Smith in one interview did say there was something available in the cap if needs must.

Hill immense
Westwood tireless
Waterhouse solid.

Grix not his best game but quality.
Laithwaite needs to use his brain when attacking but adding to that he's light or at least light in the collision.
Riley looks like a monster but acts like a monster in Monster's Inc, the Russians could raise a sub quicker than he gets up.

Asotasi is just an average prop, god I hope he gets homesick and leaves.

When Woody, England and Harrison are thrown in the mix we'll be fine, let's just hope they're available when it counts.

I agree with this but with the big lads doing the hard work, who's going to do the fancy stuff or intelligent work?

Since 2009 Smith has worked wonders with the Wire and rightly deserves to be hailed as one of the best. However, his current stance with this team shows his ineptitude and/or stubborness regarding team selection. This will be his down fall. He tries nothing new, but sits there staring out at the pitch when all is crumbling around him. If he doesnt get grip of this situation he will become a pariah with the fans.

Asotasi is lazy, has no affct on the game and is a complete waste of salary cap, Carvell is ten times the player. The half backs are hopeless, clueless and rudderless. The retirement of Briers has proved to many how useless Myler really is. To cap it all the team does not have one player capable of leading on the pitch. Every body looks to hide rather than take responsibility.

If this team finishes in the top 6 it will be a miracle. The only progression I can foresee is theincrease in the number of empty seats visible at each home game. Wigan at home and how many were there?

Nothing wrong with the pack last night, Glenn Riley made a few errors but if we don't expect that from a youngster then we'd are kidding ourselves. We looked far better in attack when Russell came on and Myler was paired with ratchford at half back. I hope we are able to stick with this combination for a few weeks and then see where we are.

I can't see us challenging for trophies this season if we can't beat the top teams, and until we start to hit our best performances that isn't going to happen. The trouble is I think we are way off our best, silly mistakes in defence cost us and we failed to really test wigans defence when we attacked, especially in the first half. Mylers kicking game was terrible until Russell came on, then he showed he is capable with some decent kicks and positional play but he doesn't look comfortable organising the team.

there isn't much wrong with the pack, they gained field position that the backs failed to use. Aggressive in the tackle as well. Westwood was best player on the field, heroic.

Not sure I watch the same game sometimes. I expected threads bemoaning our halfs, our centres and our general team cohesion, but to lay the blame at the forwards door is just plain wrong. I would say we matched them up front for the first 30, and were on top for the following 50.

Hill. Waterhouse. Westwood. Great. Asotasi is being written off too soon for me, he was 'ok' tonight and has settled quicker than Waterhouse did. He needs to improve, but hoping to god he leaves is a big overreaction in my eyes. He may end up our next Rauhihi, but let's give him more than a few games to prove himself.

So the problems:

Halfs: woeful, Myler seems to get all the stick, but he's the best of a bad bunch for me. He's playing well below standard, but O'Brien was anonymous and Ratchfkrd doesn't seem to know how to fit in. Kicking game is none existent.

Centres: the halfs need players running decent lines, rapidly losing patience with Atkins. Bridge at least shows aggression, but without Hodgson/Briers creating that half an overlap, his ability to slip a quick ball through to Monas (which he is very good at) is seriously diminished.

Team Cohision: no one seems to know what the other is doing. Players left with no passing options and at least two penalties for crossing highlight this.

Smith: he needs to pick his halfs and stick with it. Russel on the bench just seems really odd. It seems he isn't sure who his best 1/6/7 is so is covering all bases. Russell shows plenty of spark when he comes on. But I feel we will need to change our whole style of play to accommodate him. He isn't a Hodgson, he is a good running option and I would guess support player. But he won't offer that link to the three quarters that Hodgson did.

Russell
Ormsby
Evans
Bridge
Monas
Ratch
Myler
Hill
Higham
Asotasi
Westwood
Waterhouse
Grix

Monas
Wood
England
Laithwaite

Is how I would line up for Hudds. They are a big side and we can't afford a full back on the bench for this one. O'Brien has had his shot for now for me and has been the weakest of the three halfs so we should stick with this 1/6/7 for a run of games.

To get over Lee Briers we needed to replace Lee Briers. None of our halves are fit to lace his boots. We are tactically naive too. 8 points down with 10 to go and we are given 3 chances to take the eassy two points and tap it all three times, for gods sake get it back to within 1 score and then throw caution to the wind.

I am glad i wasnt the only one shouting for 2 point penalties. Getting to within one score would have unsettled the opposition more than we did.