The main thing that disappoints me about yesterday isn't us not being a big club, it's the farce of the system, that a team that finished 2nd in the league, and has been comprehensively beaten at home in their first playoff, can still end up the season as champions! How is that fair? If we win it will make a mockery of the sport. The champions should be Wigan who finished top, that is the biggest achievement.

They lost at home in the first round by 1 point, not 22.

We would have finished top if we hadn't sacrificed the London game for Wembley. How does that fit with your theory ?

Everyone needs to get a grip, we got beat in a game,this is sport this happens, if it didn't nobody would watch it. I hate this 'Big club' thing it's just arrogance to go around saying who is and isn't a big club and how yeserdays result affects it baffles me. Because of one defeat we are now rubbish? This is the playoff system, we may or may not go on to win it, no team can win every game they play in. We have lost some cup games in the last few years and won go on to win cups in the last few years. we have a great team with a bright future regardless of if we win the super league trophy or not.

We are not a big club at all only saints are a big club as Eddie Hemmings says in the play offs the big boys come out to play. clearly indicating we are not one of those big boys.

he talks tremendous sense so i'll believe what he says.

maybe if we play Catalan dragons in the olympic stadium in Barcelona next year and there are almost twenty thousand fans there and we were holders of the challenge cup I can only wish we were a big club.......

A loss is a loss....You used your second chance, we have to use ours.

The point is, having to play in week 2 is no disadvantage - What has happened to those with byes in week 2 in the last couple of seasons?...

Complete tosh.

I think you go have a a walk around your wardrobe.

I think this idea of " Big club, little club,cardboard box " is because our fans listen to opposing fans who convince us we are a little club by opening the biggest mouths in the country which are connected to the emptiest heads in the country ; most of these clubs are envious that we have never been out of the top flight of RL ,now, that is a big club ! What also doesn't help is that when we win a big game the media say it is a bad day at the office for the losers whereas when we lose a similar game we are "well beaten".
Re Wigan in 2010 ...they were made to look good at Old Trafford by a poor Saints performance in the rain that day. Unfortunately,Saints usually are below par on GF day which is usually a wet day & maybe they struggle against Leeds who can cope with the weather better.

So, in the last 4 yrs we've won silverware every year, yet the inability to reach the Play Off final means that we're not a "big club" ?

Simply nonsense !

Wigan sacrificed the game against Saints last week and also they sacrificed one against Widnes earlier in the season. They have been the best team overall this season.

I think what DM is putting too much of a divide between established top clubs and an emerging top club like ours.

Success in sport is primarily built from good financial backing, then the right people have to be put in place with that money. Look back through the history books of all sports and that is the start of every story for everyone who has succeeded and page one will show you a rich backer coming in to invest in them. Whether it's as simple as investing in facilities and coaches in a youth set-up or going as far as buying the best players at the elite first team level, it's all about the money.

Wigan RL were invested in in the 1980s and turned professional almost monopolising rugby for themselves before anyone else could get their foot in the door; from United in the 1950s to Celtic in the 1960s to Barcelona in the present day (investment in youth); from Arsenal in the 1920s to Real Madrid in the 1950s to Chelsea in recent years (investment in first team); "The Mersey Millions" that both Merseyside clubs benefitted from; looking at this Summer of the 2012 London Olympics (unprecidented National Lottery funding gearing towards medal success); the American dream is all about money, you get nowt over there for free; what City are doing right now...I could go on and on.

Everything about success is built on investment. Nothing just happens because a club is special or a manager works magic out of nowhere.

Until very recently Wire had little to no money. There was talk of us struggling badly at times. But investment came our way and since then it's been like we've been a completely different club to what we were in recent decades. For years we had an old stadium that needed updating, that's changed. For years we had fairly poor crowds, that's changed. For years we produced hardly any young talent, that's changed. For years we didn't win a trophy, that's changed. But before all those changes there were already clubs that had been in that position for years, some for decades. We're just getting up to that level and are only just starting to establish ourselves as a top club.

After a while of being established everyone forgets about that initial backing that dragged a club from wherever they were to where they're going or where they've ended up. Nobody has a Devine right to be a top club, nobody should have monopoly of success and history tells us that the same teams never stay at the top. There's always someone else. Swinton used to be a top club so did Salford, Preston used to be a top club is footy so did Burnley, but times changed. Wigan Saints Leeds and Bradford haven't always been the top clubs winning all the trophies. And look; Bradford haven't won a trophy in six years, Saints haven't won a trophy in four years...Wire have won 3 Challenge Cups and the SL LLS in the last four years.

We aren't the nearly men like some have said very recently. Catalans reached a Challenge Cup final and Grand Final Eliminator - losing both. That's what 'nearly' is. I'll say again, we've won four trophies in four years. The only clubs who match that are Wigan who have done the same and Leeds who are freaks and have reached something like 14 of the last 26 finals that are possible to reach (winning eight).

People need to get rid of this inferiority complex now. I'll say for a third time, we've won:









...in the last four years.

Come on lads n lasses...now the Wire!

Warrington have all the potential to be as big, if not bigger, than St Helens.

Indeed so on a hinterland population basis. Building up that kind of a supporter base takes generations though and I doubt many of us would live to see it even if you kept up your current high standards on an ongoing basis. I remember reading a match report in some newspaper clippings from the early '60s that described Saints as always having had a small supporter base - it's taken 50 years of (mostly) unbroken success on the field since then to burn the club into the consciousness of the people of St. Helens to the point that a poorly supported club then is now one of the biggest and best attended clubs instead.

The most well known clubs over in this part of the world are Wigan / Leeds & Hull FC.

You was Champions last year, Challenge cup winners this year.
I don't view Warrington as a big club but definitely a successful one as recent trophies have shown.

No they weren't

Is there a universal definition of a what a big club is?

The one that ate all the pies?

Hull and not Saints?

Depends on who is setting the criteria doesn't it.

Jesus don't let the RFL decide the criteria...

Hull FC in New Zealand more so than St Helens.

Most Warriors who follow UK Super League follow Hull FC and it's the club most people have heard of.
Wigan also because of there dominance of the sport in England in the 90's.

--along with having a *world wide* reputation for there pie eating abilities as well no doubt--

Warrington are a top club.

You don't finish consistently in the top 3 and win more than 1 trophy in a short soace of time without being considered such.

But the big one, the real daddy, is the grand final and warrington have only won 2 out of 10 playoff games, let alone actually making the final. The fact warrington have only contested such a small number of actual playoff games in comparison to their peers shows they are still relative new comers to playoff rugby. But it is a step up. It's a big step up from league games and it's a step up from the challenge cup.

To truly be considered one of the daddies of the game warrington [ineed[/i to win a grand final. They need a title. If you think of this on football terms. If Arsenal hadn't won a title since 1955, but they'd won a few FA cups. They'd be up there, but there'd still be a divider between them and the likes of man united.

For all leeds failures in the challenge cup their record in the grand finals is outstanding, almost freakish. To beat a team of st helens quality in 4 grand finals, not 1 or 2....but 4! is incredible.

So the grand final is the big one and success in that is what sets you apart.

I said to one of my associates at the time, last year was the best chance warrington will ever get of not only making, but winning the grand final. A home game against 5th place to get there, then a OK not outstanding saints team in the final.

If anything warrington's top 2/3 status will be jeapordy in the coming season as all the major cogs are the wrong side of 30.

Indeed. But Moran seems committed enough to overcome that with signings of the paid variety, which very few clubs will even attept to compete with.

Ratchford is already in for Hodgson, Hill already in for Morley, maybe Darryl Clarke in for Monaghan as well and you'll only really need to find someone to replace Lee Briers. If anything I think it's going to be a bit random who wins SL over the next few years. Leeds are in the same position as you, they will have to replace Burrow, McGuire, Sinfield and Peacock very shortly. Wigan are already going through the mincer with their halves being replaced by inferior players. Saints are a couple of players short of really competing for trophies, despite the weekend's result.

Warrington's fans are obviously going to have their brash overconfidence dented by being dominated at home by a team you thought you were comfortably better than. But a solid win over Hull, which it will be, and you'll be 80 minutes from OT. I'll bet this time next week you'll have a clean bill of health, you'll have smashed Hull with Westwood playing well and you'll all be full of it again.

If anything I think NOT having the semi final at the HJ has done you a massive favour. If it were Saints playing at Warrington, or Leeds at Warrington, I would fancy them to win that game. Warrington, Briers in particular, panic at the HJ when it's close because there is so much expectancy. Away at Saints at a ground with no atmosphere and fewer Warrington fans to live up to and it's a much more winnable game.