good post

SL Season begins in September as both yourselves and us found out last season. Yes we have been as impressive as you were for all of last years rounds of SL. Talking to a few Wigan fans and its not what we are doing atm that's getting us excited its the age of the side. Looks like the side could be together for a long while apart from a few players that come and go. With so much cap space available for next season we could sign 1 or 2 quality players and kick on rather than mass changed which some teams will have to do sooner rather than later. Leeds are threatening that atm and your not even close to been in that state. So stop with the doom and gloom your a good side with great players.

We have got immensely lucky that MM and Goulding have become very good for us at the right time. But flash back a few months was near desperation on our board that Maguire was gone and we recruited Harris, Flower, Dudson and Lauaki and that's without the loss to the Giants on round 1.

There is a saying its better to be lucky than good when you get both its a blessing and we have had our fair share of luck virtually all decisions over the last year has turned out well. Joel leaving only for Goulding to be a much better centre for 1 and Hock has been the best second row in SL replacing Hoff. Whilst i have watched the best Wigan displays for a decade we all know nothing is won now and that come August-October there will be a lot to play for, for both Wire and us. Both sides are the best in SL and have been for a while but been the best counts for nothing if you win nothing. And we have won nothing so far.

Good points there.

For me, it boils down to the fact that Warrington are the 1 side I don't want to face in a final.

Yes, Wire aren't as good so far as they were last year in the weekly rounds, but as someone else has said, it really doesn't make a massive amount of difference. We're 1st and 2nd, we were 1st and 2nd this time last year and both in the Semi Finals of the CC as favourites.

I've got a horrible, horrible feeling it's Wigan and Wire in both finals this year just like the OP, and I don't think any of us would be massively confident of who would win them.

It's not doom and gloom, I'm not trying to unnecessarily write us down, I might even be overconfident because I have pretty much already banked in my head that we are going to Wembley, I expect most Wire fans have secretly as well, it will be a nasty shock if Hudds beat us.

I expect us to be a top 3 side for the foreseeable future. Wigan are in pole position to be the best team in the league for the next few years, as tank123 says the age of the side is in their favour. Wigan are like Leeds were in about 2004 and they went on to win five titles in the next eight years, but with one big difference. Although both squads were young overall the key players at Wigan are older than they were at Leeds. Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire were aged 20-24, with Senior probably another key player who was 27. With Wigan now most of their key players are in the age range 28-30, ie O'Loughlin, Finch, Hock, Leuluai, Richards, with Tomkins being the younger one at 23 but potentially not being long term because union will want him. I think Wigan are well set for a stable side for the future but they will need to do more of a rebuilding job to the core of the team than their fans let on to us when they are telling us we will fall by the wayside when Briers, Morley and Michael Monaghan retire.

IMO its about four or five key players (plus a coach) that really determine a top side, Saints have proved that, they have still got all those guys like Wellens, Meli, Gardner, Wilkin, Flannery, that were smashing everybody in the old days but they aren't scaring anybody now they don't have the core of Cunningham, Sculthorpe, Long, Graham and Pryce with them. We have known for a while that we are going to have to replace our core over the next 1-3 years and it will be a major issue for us but one cause for optimism this year is our core hasn't been firing on all cylinders this year and we have still done OK, so we're in better shape overall than I thought we might be last year when I thought we were really riding off the back of Monaghan and Briers class hence at the start of the season all my doom warnings that if we lost one of them for a significant part of the season we were done.

On Monaghan (M), I know this is a controversial opinion but I reckon he's the best player in Super League (yes above Roby, Tomkins and Briers) and this season he hasn't done much and then got injured. If he gets back fit and has a good final two months of the season that could be decisive and end up with us winning one or even two trophies. So although I'm concerned that Wigan are ahead of us I can see reasons for hope as well.

A very good point. I think the key to this is to manage the transition as well as possible, and our hand will be forced a little with the halfback situation this winter. The spine of the team has a nice age range - Sam is 23, as it stands Finch and Leuluai are 30 and 26, Mickey Mac is 24 and Lockers at 29 - this should allow us to stagger when they need replacing, but the halves sitaution for 2013 is anyone's guess at the moment. It certainly shouldn't be as drastic a change when we lost Radlinski, Lam, Newton and Farrell all within the space of a year or so.




He's a brilliant player, and should have won MOS last year for me. It's heresy to even siggest this in some parts, but I'd have him over Roby without a second's hesitation.

Wigan more than any other team in Super League, with the posible exception of Castleford, are reliant upon one player in attack. If Tomkins gets injured then they will not win a thing.

As for Wigan having a more stable side then I think the need to replace their two half-backs, two senior props and their best three-quarter in one close season does not suggest very good squad management. I'm very happy we secured Ratchford last season rather than being involved this year in a bidding war for the inferior Matty Smith. Its intersting to see the same Wigan fans who claimed Ratchford was not of the required standard for Wigan last year now heralding Smith as a quality signing.

Please.......the posts on here have been very balanced unil this dribble. Tomkins is not wigans only threat, open your eyes. Charnley, Goulding, Richards (when fit) Carmont, Tommy, Finch & Hock to name a few. Whilst i would not want to see Sam injured if he was we are more than capable of scoring points without him.

You have a great ability PY to take what all small number of Wigan posters write, to mean we all think it. Ratchford got, and Smith is getting, sensibly mixed reviews. Warrington are struggling a little at this time due to the fact that you have an ageing team,as people have been saying to you for some time, missing some, and just not clicking. . Lets just wait and see what happens at the pointy end of the season.

In fact PY, on the current Matty Smith thread, you were one of the very very few detractors!!!!! By saying you thought Holdsworth was better, a nice troll to catch a couple who believed you....



You should look to your own back yard matey boy, let us worry about where the "power" is.

As a matter of interest ,is Paul Deacon still on Wigan's books or did he retire ?

Christ if being second in the table whilst going into a Challenge Cup semi as favourite to win is struggling I wish we'd been struggling like this for the past 4 decades.

The last two posts from Wigan Peer have the potential to ruin what was becoming a really good thread with some interesting debate between Wire and Wigan fans. I think that at the end of this season both clubs will be in a similar position for different reasons.
We have a few players coming to the end of their careers, however we do have some good replacements coming through.
Wigan have several players who appear to be coming to the end of their Wigan careers (Finch, Tommy, Lima), and they too seem to have some adequate replacements. The one comment I would make is that I really don't think that Smith is a Wigan type of player.
Considering that some on both sides of the fence seem to think that we are struggling, second in the league and a semi final place isn't too bad.

Hang-on a second, your post previous said:



now



Christ almighty make your mind-up.

The point I made anyway was that Holdsworth is the better of the two Salford half-backs yet Wigan are getting involved in a bidding war for Smith. Do you think Smith is better than Holdsworth?

Favorites to win the competition are Wigan though

[urlhttp://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-league/club-rugby/challenge-cup/winner[/url

Like time you replied to me like that it was with a

after "correcting" me for not knowing Ben Currie played for Wigan Academy.



idiot.

just like you was in the semi final of 2009 , just the way we like it anyway

Back to normal.

Good thread... ruined by the same predictable wigan trolls.

I know i shouldnt bite but they wind me up so much , trouble is if they keep winning they & mr clarke will get worse

Agreed. It's the same few every time. Just when we were getting a really good and intelligent debate going.

This is a good point and I think our squad management and long term planning has been very good going back to Cullen's time.

Matty Smith to Wigan shows that there is a major shortage of good halfbacks around, in the same way that Royce Simmons going to St Helens a couple of years ago showed there was a major shortage of good coaches. Going for Myler and Ratchford when we did was good business, despite the cynicism that fans of other clubs (and our own) showed about those two, saying they were overrated, they are both a cut above Matty Smith.

If you go back to 2004 when we moved into the HJ and Simon Moran bought the majority share as the start of the 'project', the goal was to build a squad that would win trophies and we basically took 3 years to assemble it, by the start of the 2008 season we had the core of the squad in place that would win the two Challenge Cups and minor premiership, most of the core players were mid 20s and a couple of 30 year olds. That squad has been easy to maintain since then, it's been 2 or 3 in and out every off season to freshen it up. That squad has steadily aged and is now four years older and starting to approach the stage where we need 4 or 5 in and out, so thats a challenge, but you will always get that when you have a group of players that are successful - they get old together, you don't want to break them up. I know people like Wigan peer will say we are getting old and everyone knew it, but what are we supposed to do....move on Briers and Morley while they are still good? There is always this cyclical element and even Man United who have had sustained success have had some years when they come to the end of one group of players where they have been overtaken by Arsenal or Chelsea for a year or two before they come back refreshed.

If you do that on their board its an instant ban...

Good post Sal. I'm finding this Matty Smith, Superstar, thing amazing. I really can't see how a player who was binned by Saints and is playing for one of the lower SL clubs has suddenly become the flavour of the month. He's never been that consistent and I just don't believe that he's Wigan class.
We may have 4-5 players approaching the end, but as Sal says they are all still good players, and we already have players coming in to replace them. Hill and Ratchford are looking class, whilst further down the line O'Brien, Dwyer, and Currie have all made strong impressions this year.
Wigan stand to lose both halfbacks, a star centre, and at least one Prop at the end of the season. They will certainly have to re-build.

I agree especially in regardess to us going after Smith. Problem is unlike the last 10 years or more its going to get increasingly difficult to get any decent player from the NRL to come to SL now with the salary cap increase in the NRL. You will really struggle to replace Briers he has improved over the last few years but you can not dodge getting too old. Morley will also be a problem to replace. But its proved in International rugby there are not many class halfs that are British. If Briers had switched alliegances 2-3 years ago he would have made the England squad. That shows the lack of quality England has at present at 6 and 7 even today at the later years of his career he is still better than any England have.

Mass cul will not work well short term but long term might. But you will have a real problem, unless you have enough quality coming through the academy system you will see standards drop as you will not be able to just go and get another King or Monaghan. Tricky situation for most teams now especially since the better young players at most SL clubs are going onto 5 year deals which means a fee will be needed and thats if a club will let their better players go.

The NRL cap increase has made a significant rethink in terms of recruitment. Last point and this has caused me aggro in work you mention Man Utd as a ruthless side in gettting rid of players. Bloody wished Liverpool did the same to Gerrard if ever a player was of someone living off past glories its him and thats what Wire musr evaluate if players perform to a standard than they will stay for another year if not you got to let them go.