Then I don't think you've watched Wigan enough. Fantastic attacking second rower, puts himself about in defence. Hopefully now he's made the switch to centre he can work on his positioning as he's got the speed, size and handling skills to potentially be one of the best in the league.

If he is a permanent fixture at centre, his dearth of lateral movement will be heavily exposed.

Besides which, Inside_man is a Wigan supporter.

Cheap shots is something that you may have a point on. He has at times overstepped the mark but hes not alone. As for mid table the fact that a champion coach selected him everytime he was available for what became the champion side would suggest hes not a mid table player, but maybe you know more than Mcguire? He is a Wigan player and I suggest thats the issue here?

People have different views my friend. None are right. None are wrong. Just different.

Dont have a problem with that mate

I'll be honest. I have never been impressed with Joel.

I can't account for McGuire picking him in the team. It may be that he rates him. Or it may be that he is good for the money =. He may be a squad a player. Like Higham or Grix or someone.

dont be stupid hes a top player

hes who?

Agreed, doesn't do enough graft as a back row forward for me, never seems to want to know when the big sides come along and is also very sly.

Lucky to be where he is in my opinion and he is only there on the hype that the press and other fans give him.

Quote ="reidy_21"Agreed, doesn't do enough graft as a back row forward for me, never seems to want to know when the big sides come along and is also very sly. Lucky to be where he is in my opinion and he is only there on the hype that the press and other fans give him.'" Disagree completely. He does a lot of work particularly in defence, and breaks through the line a lot. I know people on here aren't a fan of stats, but you compare him to someone who a lot of people on here (after the fact) say they'd prefer to Puletua.... www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011

Quote ="reidy_21"Agreed, doesn't do enough graft as a back row forward for me, never seems to want to know when the big sides come along and is also very sly. Lucky to be where he is in my opinion and he is only there on the hype that the press and other fans give him.'" Disagree completely. He does a lot of work particularly in defence, and breaks through the line a lot. I know people on here aren't a fan of stats, but you compare him to someone who a lot of people on here (after the fact) say they'd prefer to Puletua.... www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011

Quote ="inside_man"Disagree completely. He does a lot of work particularly in defence, and breaks through the line a lot. I know people on here aren't a fan of stats, but you compare him to someone who a lot of people on here (after the fact) say they'd prefer to Puletua.... www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011'" I'm not Louis biggest fan anyway. He doesn't that much work really in comparison with Westwood and Harrison though. 20 tackles a game is a poor return from an 'international' 2nd row. He makes his brakes because he never does graft off the ruck like Westwood and Harrison, he runs outwide in the centres, and yes i'm aware Wigan have played him a few games at centre this year but even when he plays in the pack he drifts outwide. www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011 www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011

Quote ="inside_man"Disagree completely. He does a lot of work particularly in defence, and breaks through the line a lot. I know people on here aren't a fan of stats, but you compare him to someone who a lot of people on here (after the fact) say they'd prefer to Puletua.... www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011'" I'm not Louis biggest fan anyway. He doesn't that much work really in comparison with Westwood and Harrison though. 20 tackles a game is a poor return from an 'international' 2nd row. He makes his brakes because he never does graft off the ruck like Westwood and Harrison, he runs outwide in the centres, and yes i'm aware Wigan have played him a few games at centre this year but even when he plays in the pack he drifts outwide. www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011 www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011

Stats are e official!

But still... I have heard you can assume tackles made to be a very rough estimation of time spent onf the pitch. In that respect let's do some maths

Metres per tackle made (time spent on pitch)

Joel-4.07 metres per tackles he has made

4.56 - metres per tackles made

So Louis is at least an eighth better.

and louis isn't even the best choice you could have made. He can be poo and is injured a lot compared to the massive amount of tackles he usually makes. So the chances are Luois has made a ton more metres than Joel per minute,..

I know but its pointless comparing him to Westwood! haha.

Louis has also been injured for a fair amount of games.

Well he can't be as good as you all think then, if was a top player, and of international class then he would match up to Ben Westwood surely?

Based on the stats for last year when Joel played almost exclusively at second row you can see how good he is.
[urlhttp://superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2010&hp1=2163&hs2=2010&hp2=470&stat=tries&season=2011[/url

Played 4 more games though.

Lee Smith from Leeds Rhinos

That would be International Lee Smith

(That's a whole new thread)

He seems to have come back from Union a weaker player, his annoyance factor has remained the same though.

Yep only thing of note he has done is score a try to knock us (wigan) out of the challenge cup last year

Still makes me laugh that someone threw a butty box at him after that though






Ill add a few more into the mix whilst im here
Francis Meli
Richard Horne
Jon Wilkin
Carl Ablett
David Vaelekki
Ryan Atkins
Jamie Ainscough

Did Vaealiki win a trophy? I thought Manly released him half way through the season when they won the NRL...?

Yet another one eyed Pie Eater cannot see that Wilkin is a quality player, and of course he just had to throw Ryan Atkins in too.

beat me to it.