Got to agree with the original poster,though I feel he's looking at it through this season's Saints' performances and I cant blame him.

Under Millward and Anderson, Saints were by far the most exciting team to watch, but under Potter they have become like every other sl side except for Leeds and Cas, where its 5 drives and kick is the norm. Boring and predictable.

I'm with you now; its not anything to do with whether Saints won trophies its just that St Helens Super League Champions 1999, 2000, 2002 and Challenge Cup and World Club Champions 2001 were a great side to watch.

I take it all these Saints fans who dont like the boring, defence based RL arent NRL fans then?

To some extent I've got to agree. I think the problem stems from the 'wrestling' techniques at the tackle, followed by the 3-4 tacklers peeling off the attacking player one at a time after the tackle has been called held, thus allowing the defence to re-align, the worst offenders being Huddersfield.
I wouldn't mind betting that if referees were a bit more strict with this, that the Huddersfield defence would quickly start leaking points.

I take what you say but in all honesty that is rubbish huddersfield didnt do that in the cup final, I never found myself shouting "gerrem off ref"

Saints are Experts at lying on. their technique at turtling and spinning off one by one is the bench mark, it looks like they are getting off as quick as they can but in reality its a 4 and 5 second hold like any of the other supposed culprits. Cas were worse at holding down than Huddersfield but because they rack up as well as concede a few points they get away with it.

in fact wasnt there a piece on wrestling techniques on the super league show or something at the start of the year when Cunningham complained about such techniques? but the wrestling coaches quoted saints as one of the first teams to come down to their gymn and learn these techniques......



black kettle anyone

Huddersfield didn't get the chance in the Final due to our aggression. Look at all the early season complaints from Coaches about their tactics.

The game has progressed. Deal with it. Sport is about winning.

It was always about winning but it is also an entertainment business and, if those who are not winning are not entertained then it's not going to do wonders for clubs profit margins.

There's a fine line to be drawn. We all like winning but when winning comes at the expense of any entertainment then the public will eventually vote with their feet.

There is a precedent that says this has happened before, when the public tired of the 'up the jumper' mentaility in the unlimited tackle era, as coaches cottoned onto the fact that sterile tactics were winning tactics. As a result, crowds dipped to a fraction of their previous levels and took a decade or so to recover.

I have been watching since 1987. Let's just say the period between 1987 and 1996, when Wigan mopped up the lot, compared to our silverware laden years between 2006 and 2008, was significantly more entertaining and will be looked upon in a much fonder light when we are old and grey.

thats a sad signature pal....

in fact its not its very funny, but at least your still standing by your original dummy spitting principles.......

it beats those cranks that have all the Saints Wire results from the past 14 years....I mean fancing listing all those terrible dour games that were as a bad as rugby union......



still i guess you yearn for those 80 nil games they were great for the sport werent they.



keep running the game down pal we need blokes like you....when half the world is willing to watch some goaless eventless football game here we have idiots like you doing our/your sport no favours at all........

please peddle your misery elsewhere the 80's have gone haggerty forber barry ledger and those incredibly talent fit individuals have gone to entertain in a better place ....probably the pub ...i suggest you join them....

Wake up and smell the salt sunshine.

If you can't see that this game is now dominated by defensive, safety first rugby at the expense of attacking, free-flowing rugby then you are clearly not worth conversing with and, with apathetic masses like you trumping the game up to be as good as ever, there is no hope of recovery.

Biff, bash, drive, drive, scoot, drive, drive, kick. Fascinating stuff!

bring back the biff, job done.

Guess u are one of the people who dont like the salary cap then? as its bringing more challenging games instead of hammerings

Saints fans all over TBH.

Agree with the Saints fans on this one. As a fan of Warrington its been the best season as we've actually won something, but the game as a whole has become boring and predictable. Its probably the worst since I started watching RL about 15 years ago in terms of quality.

Good job the Aussies and Kiwis are here this winter to show us how the game should be played, with the likes of Marshall, Slater, Hayne, Inglis, Inu and Thurston on another planet to our backs.

I am probably not in a position to comment on this as I have watched less rugby this year than in previous years. I am going to anyhow.

Error free footy is where it is heading. Can you imagine Monaghan releasing in the tackle behind his own line to put hicks away under Smith. Or firing a pass to the winger straight from a kick off? I suspect not.
The way we play has changed over the last 6 months but I dont dislike the way we play now. There are still elements of skill, just less risky.
The emphasis does change to try and keep up with Australian RL. International success is a must for the growth of RL in this country. If a slightly less risky style of play across SL means that England can compete with / triumph over the Aussies in the next few years than I would take that.

I just don't think people have the patience this day and age to simply sit there and actually watch and 'get into' a game. They want instant action and a watered down, less tactical, less thought out version of the sport for the sake of pseudo entertainment. Each to their own, of course, but what is this "free flowing, spell binding game" we fell in love with? The one with more scrums than accumulated points? Or the one where pitches were so sp of grass that by half time, you had difficulty distinguishing the jerseys of each team due to the amount of mud?

I'm no elitist and I'm not going to say that the game was better at such and such a point, but the game has evolved and changed somewhat, but that is the same as anything. I thought the Grand Final was such a high quality game, with two teams with similar skill sets, yet somewhat contrasting styles clashing in a high pressure situation. Leeds' flat, somewhat narrow attack just edged past Saints' all singing, all dancing, fancy footballing attack.

No doubt in fifteen or so years time, I'll be telling my kids that their favourite player couldn't tie Lee Briers' bootlaces on his best day.

rubbish rubbish and more rubbish Drive scoot scoot scoot pass kick was saints staple play for years.....fortunately for you lot after the scoots by Joynt, Sculthorpe then Cunningham you could fling the ball out wide and score on the next or last tackle and if it went through four pairs of hands you were world beaters........

whats happened now is Eddie and Stevo no longer bum your team when you score tries that that have been "created" by playing unopposed rugby. because really its not very skilfull is it...

Its not the rest of the leagues fault that Leon pryce couldnt thread a shoe lace never mind thread a ball through a gap for a second rower to run on and score from.....Lee Briers can Danny Mcguire can, Tommy leuluia can for gods sake....!!!

expect next season to get worse now youve lost Longy....Eastmond and pryce wont be able to open a a box of tic tacs never mind an organised defence.....you should start a petition complaining about holding down and try and get laws changed for next year so you have a chance....

It's been the staple part of our play since the emergence of James Roby in 2005 and I have a distinct feeling that Daniel Anderson and his use of Roby can be blamed fairly and squarely for the crap game that we see today.

He discovered a cheap and effective way of gaining metres and we used it ad nauseum. As it happens, the 2006 treble winning season was the most boring I have seen after 2009.

Saints did not play that way in the pre-2006 era and neither did the rest of Rugby League.

I don't care if we get worse as a team next year, as long as the game gets more watchable. I am disllusioned with Rugby League at the moment, not my team. However, I wouldn't expect you to be intelligent enough to see beyond what you want to see my agenda as being, so believe what you have to believe and I hope you get as much enjoyment out of the game as I got between 1987 and 2005.

Great post, pal.

The Saints domination era was the worst RL entertainment wise I have ever witnessed.

Surely it was Millward who brought in the quick PTB, jump from Dummy Half ad nauseum?

Why in the petition does it call for quicker play the balls and less holding down at the PTB if it is quick play the balls that are killing the game?

It was and we finished up with failed half backs playing hooker, quick scoots, easy meters and then getting tackled, but couldn't pass water.

We had promising young halfbacks coming through, (Tommy Lee, Thomas and James Coyle, Scott Moore etc) but we bulked them up as "scooters"

It also killed clever, ball playing half backs.

It looks as though Moore having being coached by an ex. hooker in Nathan Brown has been taught how to pass quickly and accurately from dummy half.


Hopefully the slower ptb will encourage good hooker and half back play again.

In answer to the first one, it may possibly have been in the last few months of Millward's era. Certainly the moment when we started backing up Cunningham and Roby was the point when we started to utlise this tactic as our main play rather than an occasional one and Roby played during the last days of Millward's tenure. As to the exact point it came in, it's hard to say.

In answer to the second, because the instigator of the petition completely missed the point as to why the game had gone boring - but he meant well.

anyone remember our performance in the first game of the season?

Middle of the field charge, middle of the field charge, people were bemoaning lowes' tactics for us back then, stuck in cullen's route 2.

IMO this has been one of the best super league seasons as anyone can beat anyone so dont see how you think its predictable? for example results like salford beating leeds at leeds, hull kr winning at saints, us & huddersfield making the final