well he wasnt on his own then realy ,didnt do bad with a torn biscepe

He's been our best player for the last two seasons. He's for some reason played below his best at present, but I think it's a little disrespectful to start having a dig at him to be honest. He's not a 'neanderthal', he's a grafter, who gets off the line and meets attackers hard and whether his form is tip top or woeful, he gives it all for the cause, you say you'd ship him out, he'd be one of my first picks, purely because he doesn't give an inch. He doesn't do flash, he does rough & tough.

I think his form suffered on the back of the sending off & subsequent ban. It seemed to de-rail him somehow.

Aye he hasn't had quite the 'edge' he used to have before that, am sure he will pick up sooner or later. Luckily, the Anderson brothers are going through a good patch to ease the pressure on him.

My general thoughts are that he is poop. Higham is also a one trick pony but at the very least he has a trick and some pace.

I do not intend to be disrespectful, I am simply pointing out the obvious and that is that Westwood does not possess a Rugby brain....Yes, he's a grafter, I've acknowledged that, but grafters in Rugby are ten a penny...He also does rough & tough, I acknowledge that too, however, there is a massive difference between rough & tough and controlled rough & tough which Westwood seems unable to do.

I am not saying that Westwood is a bad player, I am just of the view that there are many Westwood-type players out there, who are just as good, and more importantly are not as liable to have disciplinary brain-farts in the manner Ben does.

You may think that 1 or 2 penalties conceded won't make much difference, but in reality with the closeness of the competition this season, those couple of penalties could be the difference between success and failure.

Could you give us some examples then. I'm interested to know because I don't think there are.

Westwood himself admitted he felt he owed the team after being banned. I think there is an element of him trying to do too much and consequently making errors he nmormally wouldn't.

I think one or two opposition players make more fuss after the collision because they think Westwood has a bit of a reputation for being indisciplined and thus they can milk a penalty.

I'm with you on this one. I think it is a little disrespectful to simply label him a 'rough and tough player'. He has a lot more to his game, and IMO he is one of the very best 2nd rowers in this comp.

His form hasn't been outstanding recently, but I thought he did a lot of good stuff yesterday despite a couple of errors.

In my own opinion (important point there..

)....Clint Newton, Jon Wilkin, Jamie Jones-Buchannan to name three.

Look, I'm not saying they are significantly better, but what I'm trying to say is that your Westwood's of this world are not irreplaceable. They are important players to any team, but the main difference between them all at the end of the day, is whether they possess any serious weaknesses...I feel Ben's discipline is his downfall in this case.

Not exactly scraping the barrell there though are we. Two Super League and Challenge Cup winning GB internationals and a NRL Grand Finalist. I would imagine all three are paid more than Westwood also.

If that is the company you're putting Westwood with he's not doing too bad.

Well, I said all along that I rate Westwood, I just think his indiscretions let him down big time...

As for the salary debate?....You really reckon they'll be earning much more than Westwood??....

Hock JJB Clough

Are you seriously suggesting that:

a) Hock's discilpline is better than Westwood's?; and

b) Clough is as good as Westwood?

Ben Westwood always used to have a positive impact on most Warrington games but to me this positive impact is getting less and less, his overall performances used to outweigh those silly pens he gives away for things like messing around at the play of the ball and the high shots but i wouldn`t say thats the case in recent times.

Whats happened to the block busting runs especially when he used to appear out wide for tries in a similar way to what Louis Anderson has been doing, Westwood used to appear on the left side of attack but that role seems to be Louis Andersons now, he doesn`t look as effective appearing on the right side of attack, he`s a less skilful version of Gareth Hock and doesn`t have anywhere near the same impact, he will always give 101% but i`m not so sure how effective he really is at present.

Spot on

The past few years I'm sure Westwood has been play right side of the attack? Briers, Westwood, Gleeson/Bridge Hicks. Scored many a try form a crash ball from Briers.

Newton no, JJB possibly, Wilkin yes

Yeah, I thought BW has spent most of his time at second row on the right since Logan Swann left. Only a guess but I reckon that Westwood gives away most of his penalties early in a game. Stats could prove me wrong but i get the impression he is giving it the "Your not gonna want to run at me are you?"
He has done a decent job of giving Lee Briers some protection down that side. Briers tried to put him onto a crash ball but he knocked on, One of those things. He could quite easily have scored one of his trademark reaching for the line tries. I think we are keeping things tighter now. I know Martin Gleeson has took a bit of stick recently but he would have created additional space for Briers and Westwood to exploit.

higham is a one trick pony,can you please tell how many tricks do all the other hookers have in sl ,go through the teams you will find none .diskin no trick ,roby one trick ,alker no trick shall i go on ,

Extremely harsh that, yes he sometimes does come flying in but on the whole his tackling technique is excellent, puting his whole body into the collision and generally just getting stuck in. For the amount of work Benny gets through in a game and the amount he is involved in the game, he is going to give away a few penalties, wish he would clean up the way he gets off the tackle at the play the ball though.

Yeh he has, i was referring to when we had Logan Swan on the right, in my opinion Ben Westwood was playing his best RL during that time which was on the left.

In 2005 he scored 13 tries from left side 2nd row and in 2007 he scored 12 tries, in 2007 he was all over the place position wise as he filled in at loose forward and left centre which is where he scored a hatrick against Huddersfield, again that was from his favoured left side which is where he also played at Wakefield.

I`m just saying that in my opinion we havn`t seen the best of Ben Westwood since he has been on the right, yeh he has picked up player of the year awards in recent times whilst on the right but lets face it that wasn`t hard to win given the competition he was up against which was a squad that was in the main full of non triers and under performers, Ben Westwood`s efforts stood out a mile but that doesn`t mean he was taking SL apart with non stop rampaging runs like he was doing back in 2005.

Quote ="Paul Youane"Are you seriously suggesting that: a) Hock's discilpline is better than Westwood's?; and '" this link says he has conceeded less penalties despite playin more games. Ironically wetwood has played less becaus he was banned for 6 games for ill disciplin www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009

Quote ="Paul Youane"Are you seriously suggesting that: a) Hock's discilpline is better than Westwood's?; and '" this link says he has conceeded less penalties despite playin more games. Ironically wetwood has played less becaus he was banned for 6 games for ill disciplin www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009

Quote ="Paul Youane"Are you seriously suggesting that b) Clough is as good as Westwood?'" this link says clough makes more yards per carry, more tacles misses less tackles makes less errors conceeds less penalties www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009

Quote ="Paul Youane"Are you seriously suggesting that b) Clough is as good as Westwood?'" this link says clough makes more yards per carry, more tacles misses less tackles makes less errors conceeds less penalties www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009

Actually Rob, just to pull you on a couple of things here:

In 2005 Ben had just moved from centre and played quite a few games at loose, some at prop, a couple at centre and some at the second row. Since he has had a secure position in the 2nd row he has attacked the right, alongside Briers and Gleeson.