Try telling Widnes fans that - it's happened twice to them!!

Not in a franchise situation though.

Plus I think the RFL are more incompetent now than they were back then.

Do we really think that the current superleague clubs are guarenteed a place? That isn't the communication coming from Red Hall. It's 19 into 14 isn't it? Is it possible that Widnes, Leigh and Salford could all get in?

It will all hinge on how INDEPENDENT the rfl's independent panel is if you get my drift !

Cas to go out for me, then Salford, Weirdness and Celtic, although i disagree with Celtic getting a franchise, i think the RFL are so keen on expansion, that this will happen. Feel sorry for Leigh though, dont think they will get one and it would be good to more weight to re-addressing the yorkshire-lancashire balance in the league.

I'd rather go to Castleford than to Leigh.

FORMER South Sydney coach Shaun "Bomber" McRae will next week launch a fresh round of multi-million-dollar raids on the NRL's already depleted playing stocks.

The Daily Telegraph can reveal up to 30 of the NRL's brightest stars will be targets next week when the English Super League announces an expanded competition that will include two new teams for 2009.

The teams likely to be called up into the new-look Super League include [size=150McRae's Salford Reds and Welsh team the Celtic Crusaders[/size.

A staggering 88 former NRL players already play in the Super League and leading player manager Steve Gillis last night warned another 30 could be on the way.

"There is no doubt more talent will be lost," Gillis said.

"Most of the clubs in contention have been in contact with Australian agents for some time. They have made their primary targets very clear and have many names pencilled in.

"I expect when the decision comes down next Tuesday at least a dozen signings will be announced within 12 hours."

It is believed Neville Costigan, Luke Covell, Jeremy Smith, Ben Rogers and Steve Menzies head the NRL hit-list.

Australian rugby league has already been rocked by the looming departures of Mark Gasnier, Danny Buderus, Brett Hodgson and Michael Crocker.

Eels coach Michael Hagan admitted he had serious fears for the future of the NRL, declaring depth was becoming a major concern.

"It is a big concern," Hagan said.

"Of course depth is a problem. Even with us, and we have had a pretty good year with injuries. But we have hit a bit of a hurdle this week.

"Some clubs have been struggling all year with it."

Reserve grade has been axed this year and Hagan said player from the Under-20s competition were not ready for the rigours of first grade.

"Even the NYC program, which we are all talking about with players being promoted, it is yet to be seen how many games they can handle," Hagan said.

"The whole week-in week-out thing really takes it out of you. I reckon you have to play about 50 NRL games before you get your head around it all.

"We are also losing some of our best young blokes to the Super League. I think rugby union is also enticing some.

"That is the other danger."

Hagan is bracing himself for his stars to be targeted.

"Krisnan Inu and Jarryd Hayne are here for a couple of years but we have to be mindful of how we are going to keep them," he said.

"I have no doubt they will be targeted."

Former Eel Tim Smith is expected to make his debut for UK powerhouse club Wigan next week.

In an ideal world, Cas and Wakey will be dropped leaving ten teams and four places. The fourteen team SLIV will look like;

Bradford Bulls
Catalan Dragons
Celtic Crusaders
Huddersfield Giants
Harlequins RL
Hull FC
Hull KR
Leeds Rhinos
Leigh Centurions
Salford City Reds
St Helens
Warrington Wolves
Widnes Vikings
Wigan Warriors

Unfortunately, Wakefield's Challenge Cup achievements this year will no doubt prevent this from happening. In which case, Celtic will (and probably should) be dropped from the above list.

Crimea?

Well perhaps I should say that again. I would rather go to places on the way to Cas.

The stadia point is a big one and, in particular, how lenient they're prepared to be on that. My guess is that they'll be flexible at this stage but that 'borderline' clubs will need to have the stadiums built or on the way in a physical sense by the time the next round of franchise applications are due. On that basis, I'd imagine Cas and Wakefield will get in.

Spot on

Thought the had fallen out of cas' venture this week, some mention about the construction company pulling out and the area chosen was prone to floodings (its in yorkshire, HELLO!)

There's a chap posting the same on lots of team's boards.

If there is anyone on this board with experience of the construction industry it would be interesting to hear their thoughts on the following projects:

Salford
Cas
Wakey

I know WOTT informed Paul Youane and Behind the Stick about the Halliwell Jones construction in the past but other than that I'm not sure where our expertise lies.

Does anyone think that having Celtic in super league would be a good idea

I believe the taking of Millenium(?) Madness to Scotland is not a coincidence.

It would be good to have an old firm game in SL.

It can't hurt. The way I see it, Celtic were brought in to;

a) Level out the number of teams in the National Leagues due to Catalan being fast tracked into SL.

b) So the RFL can have one last ditch attempt at expanding to Wales. With putting them into NL2 at the time, no one would care or lose as much money as they did with PSG or the original Gateshead club.

Fortunately, things have turned out pretty OK and the club is rich in media exposure and playing quality. If they were to be in SL, it would reward those at the club for the hard work over the past three/four years, but wouldn't be a disaster if they were to be cut in favour of Salford, Widnes or Leigh.

Is there a guarantee that Hull KR are definately in? Perhaps with a better chance that Castleford, probably wakefield but without the applications in front of me it would be hard to say.

It is my understanding that Salford are already on site, although work has stopped due to items of archaelogical interest have been found.

As fut t'other two, I would imagine the developers have had their current funding offer withdrawn due to this credit crunch nonsense. So the whole round-robin of speaking to the banks, getting the land appraised will begin. It doesn't necessarily mean it is a dead duck, just gone back a bit.

[uThe Lineup As It Should Be[/u
Warrington Wolves
Bradford Bulls
Leeds Rhinos
Wigan Warriors
Hull FC
Hull KR
Castleford Tigers
St Helens
Widnes Vikings
Salford City Reds
Huddersfield Giants
Harlequins RL
Catalan Dragons
Celtic Crusaders

Wakefield Wildcats deserve to be dropped from the franchise until they can establish a proper club. (All of the other candidates have a decent stadium planned or already in place, Wakey do not!)

[uThe Lineup As It Will Be[/u
Warrington Wolves
Bradford Bulls
Leeds Rhinos
Wigan Warriors
Hull FC
Hull KR
Castleford Tigers
St Helens
Salford City Reds
Huddersfield Giants
Harlequins RL
Catalan Dragons
Celtic Crusaders
Wakefield Wildcats

I agree with what you said about Wakefield. Although they will land on their feet with a Wembley appearance I bet!

On a personal level, I'd like to see Widnes back in SL along with Salford. Celtic Crusaders? No thanks. I've got too many doubts over whether RL can become popular in Wales. I loved the yearly Cardiff trips but lets face it, it was only really the supporters of current SL teams who showed up to watch the games.

i think futurechampions has it spot on there...i agree with his shoulds, and think what we'll get is what he thinks. i do think that it is probably a year too early for the crusaders, but if they can get a few welsh union players to go across, get harris down, cunningham might fancy it, and you never know, even briers. to be part of something new may appeal to these guys whose careers are winding down

why would Widnes deserve a place ahead of Wakefield? Wakefield have been a pretty good team for a few years now and produced some good players through their ranks, which Widnes haven't.

Widnes have a better Stadium