Hill has to be replaced as captain.

We're not bottlers, we just don't have the key to unlock defences.

If Austin lives up to his NRL form then that's still not enough - get that 2nd marquee signing and buy Drinkwater. Those 2 together could be another Nat Wood & Lee Briers.

As for next season's captain......Mike Cooper.

You dont get to 2 finals and compete and run both teams close in both if your bottlers.

Yes as long odds underdogs we cannot accuse the 2018 side of being bottlers. The form book and bookies were correct. By and large Wigan have better playes and are more effective as a team. We can beat the top sides in a one-off situation occasionally but not consistently yet.

There have been a lot of different players used in those six finals. Ratchford, Hill and Westwood are the consistent links in all of them.

Maybe after the game when Ratchford was being presented with the Harry Sunderland they should have asked him why he freezes in big games.

Also I'm sure I remember the great Les Boyd team bottling it in two Lancashire Cups, a John Player Special and a Premiership final. Could have done with a psychologist back then to help big Les with his nerves on the big occasion.

Yeah good one. A lot of those finals were against the only full time professional side in the league.

When you play a GF the results are largely 50:50 between the teams as no team can win every final. However the CC final losses are harder to explain away.

The two CC final losses were both against teams that we were fancied to beat and who had never won a Wembley final before they beat us. Hull in 2016 could have gone either way. Catalans this year was for me the most disappointing of our defeats as it was a game we didn't turn up ready to perform. We didn't "bottle it" on the big stage, we turned up lethargic against a fired up Catalans who had blown Saints away in the first 20 minutes and allowed them to do the same to us. We were then always chasing the game, and due to our limited attacking potential that is not a good position for us.

Your 50:50 theory is interesting because I looked up the stats. Wigan: won 5, lost 5. Saints: won 5, lost 5. Bradford: won 3, lost 3.

The two anomaly clubs are Leeds (won 8, lost 2) and Wire (won 0, lost 4).

It's also sobering to think that Leeds, Wigan and Saints have won 18 out of 21 GFs to date and those 3 from Bradford in a 5 year period (which coincided with Noble being their coach) were the only time the three-club dominance has been broken.

There is also a question about whether the CC and the GF are fundamentally different kinds of trophies to win. Between 2003 and 2012, Leeds were in 5 CC finals, and lost them all, but were in 6 GFs and won them all. Over that same period, Saints were in 4 CC finals and won them all, and were in 5 GFs and lost them all....? At least in the past 3 seasons we've been consistent in CCs and GFs.

No complaints from me. best team won. and yes, we did bottle it. Again.

Defensively and coming out our own half we're pretty much bang on. as soon as we get to the 4th and 5th tackle in their 30 or 20 we look completely clueless. A high bomb to the corner on EVERY last tackle play will not win you the game. We've been asking and crying out for Roberts to take the line on all season, why did he suddenly decide that he has the ability to ghost through the line instead of passing the frigging ball on Saturday? Unbelievable. All Ratch needed was a bit of effort from literally anyone to be a support runner and we could have had that game. Grand finals are all about commitment and the 1% extra efforts. Wigan had that and we didn't. When it kicked off at half time we should have gone out in the 2nd half and murdered Escare for starting it, the cocky garlic eating surrender monkey.

Also, to the two delightful gentlemen sat behind me, who left with 15 minutes to go screaming how effing s*** we are... Don't come to a GF again if all you are going to do is slag the team off for the full 80 minutes. and then call all the Warrington fans around you deluded happy clappers for believing we could possibly win anything. yes you may be right in some respects but its quite annoying, everyone within 10m all said 'thank f*** for that' when you got up and left.

You had nothing to say and you said it too loudly.

Other than that and barring the result, had a great day out on the ale. I'll never get bored of seeing my team walk out at a final.

I think what I understand by “bottlers” is very different to what you do. I would say we largely played as we did all season (in fact in defence and penalties better) but we weren’t good enough. As I understand it , bottling is not performing to your potential due to pressure of the occasion.

definitely over achievers this year

Bottlers lose 6 in a row, just sort Browns replacement, change the captain, use BMM correctly and we could be a great team to watch, again.

Overachievers in terms of reaching the Grand Final, most certainly. On Saturday we gave it our all but lost against a better team.

However, the Challenge Cup final at Wembley is where they bottled it. Better team than on paper, massively outnumbered their supporters, but the Catalans players just wanted it more.

Reckon we'll make one of the finals next season though - a chance to put things right.

i dont think we bottled it, we just weren't good enough... You cant fault the effort.

price has done very well to get us to 2 finals, when you consider the mess he was left with.

Brown and Roberts have to be one of the worst pairings in SL.... To get to 2 finals with those 2 in the halves, is nothing short of a miracle... Hopefully next season, we are going in with 2 new ones and around 3 or 4 new players in other positions as well.

While defeat was disappointing, i honestly did feel like we had a chance going into the game. So it wasn't a surprise at all...... Challenge cup final on the other hand

Can't give you an argument the game in Wembley was a sorry affair indeed.

I do not think we bottled it.
I think we have been void of ideas all season, yet somehow nearly pulled off something remarkable. great effort this year from the lads. Could of won the double.

that Catalans team then needed some beating. They wanted every game more than anyone.

Taking the meaning of the word bottlers as blowing a winning opportunity when in the ascendancy, or simply not turning up, let's have a look at the SIX consecutive finals we've lost, since Wembley 12.

GF 12 Leeds.
We got beat by a battle hardened team, who knew how to win games that matter, at the ends of seasons. Not bottled

GF 13 Wigan
Bottled it. Simples as. We blew a 14 point lead. As soon as they scored their first try, we were like rabbits in headlights. To blame injuries is just a smoke screen. Choked big style.

CC 16 Hull
One of the dourest games of RL it's been my misfortune to watch.. A shot at Sandow and an over the hill Gidley. Currie dropping the ball was just unfortunate. Not bottled. Poor halves.

GF 16 Wigan
Another of the dourest games of RL etc. Sandow on one leg. Not bottled. Poor halves

CC 18 Cats
Dreadful start. Catalans gave us enough rope to hang them. We could have stayed there all night, and not scored. Not bottled. Poor halves.

GF 18 Wigan
Opened them up, early on, then didn't try anything for the rest of the game. The worst Wigan performance in a Final in a generation. Not bottledd. Poor halves.

Are we spotting a trend here? POOR HALVES. Briers still hasn't been even adequately replaced. Rectify this, we stand a chance of winning something.

On other stuff.
I don't buy this [iwe've over achieved this year[/i nonsense. Price got a team that was littered with internationals. It's not like he's gone to a punch drunk Widnes, and got them to two finals. No-ones said Wigan have over achieved this year. They only scraped into last year's play offs in EIGHTH, a point better than us.

LG , if we haven’t over achieved does that mean at the start of the season you thought we would make both finals? Did you honestly think we would beat Saints in the semi before kick off? I would answer no to both questions hence my over achieving remark, especially given how our halves played all season.

Well, we made the CCF by beating a pathetic Leeds side, and [idoing a number[/i on a Wigan side that simply didnt turn up. We've barely needed to break sweat, to get there.

Getting to the GF
There were 8 clubs that were worse than us. Some of them were APPALLING, such is the standard of SL. Again, we've barely needed to break sweat to get top 4.
Saints away in the semi. Why not beat them. They were a shadow of the side that was thrashing teams, before the Super 8's. The same can be said for Barba's season. We have a good record there, so again, why not? I said that night, that there's NO reason why we can't win.

We didn't overachieve. We got to two finals. It's not an achievement to lose finals. should have won one, and could've got the other, too.

I don’t disagree, but what were your expectations?

To win everything.

The standard of SL has slipped that much, that anything is possible.
Don't believe me?
Leeds 16 middle 8's
Leeds 17 Champions
Leeds 18 middle 8's

Wigan 16 champions
Wigan 17 scrape into Super 8's
Wigan 18 Champions

Wire 16 RU
Wire 17 middle 8
Wire 18 RU

No consistancy from three of the perceived "big 4"
Why not dream? Again, I said at the start of the season "there's no reason why we can't win".
Why accept mediocrity? We've got to two finals with two expensive, misfit halves.

I don't make these claims by being an uberfan, just a realist. Saints have proved that [ithey ain't all that[/i, despite their gobpooh fans telling all and sundry, otherwise.

The reason we're not winning finals is clearly because we haven't got a proven goalkicker. I'm overlooking the fact that Ben Westwood was kicking goals at Wembley in 2010

Lefty were your expectations at the start of 2018 for Wire to win everything?

I understand your point but unlike those teams mentioned

1. We had/have weaker squad than those clubs.
2. We had a new coach and assistant.

I think it's been a good season but in hindsight, could have been a double if we had even reasonably effective half backs.

I can’t help feeling that this post flies in the face of your signature!

Wouldn’t say we bottled it.
For us to win that game the pies would have had to bottle it, they almost did, but just hung in there.
Think getting to the cup final made the grand final a game to many for us.