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| Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"
As I've said a few weeks back, prop/middle is a massive recruitment struggle for all teams'"
Saints seem to do okay. |
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| Quote ="ninearches"So, what is a middle a new term for ? Can someone please run that by me ?'"
Middles are now yer big men that play in the middle of the field, not always an out n out prop.
Jason clark for example, is a middle, usually lines up at 13 but is used for your grunt work, but isn't what you would refer to as a loose forward |
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| Quote ="Lord Tony Smith"Saints seem to do okay.'"
They haven't had much turnover for the last few seasons though.
Saints fans have lamented their props this year, outside of walmsley they've had their moments complaining about Graham, lees and lms.
Next season they dont have Graham, or thompson, let's see how they get on.
They've signed a backrow/middle so far haven't they? |
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| Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"They haven't had much turnover for the last few seasons though.
Saints fans have lamented their props this year, outside of walmsley they've had their moments complaining about Graham, lees and lms.
Next season they dont have Graham, or thompson, let's see how they get on.
They've signed a backrow/middle so far haven't they?'"
Graham, Lees, LMS and Amor all walk into our squad though and are four really good forwards to have with Walmsley. Add to that Thompson for the last few years. Puletua, Solioa etc before that.
Yeah theyv'e signed Sione Mata'utia and Joel Thompson for next year. |
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All these struggles to sign a decent prop and none allegedly being available. All this while Hull KR go and sign Korbin Sims, while we’re sat twiddling our thumbs and look set to be over dependent on Hill and Cooper once again.
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| Quote ="Lord Tony Smith"Graham, Lees, LMS and Amor all walk into our squad though and are four really good forwards to have with Walmsley. Add to that Thompson for the last few years. Puletua, Solioa etc before that.
Yeah theyv'e signed Sione Mata'utia and Joel Thompson for next year.'"
amor is another one, saints fans have wanted rid for a few years.
Puletua left in 2013 alongside the same time morley et al did here, how far back are we going
*also, massive thread drift here. |
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| Quote ="DAG"All these struggles to sign a decent prop and none allegedly being available. All this while Hull KR go and sign Korbin Sims, while we’re sat twiddling our thumbs and look set to be over dependent on Hill and Cooper once again.'"
kr have money spare after releasing 13 players, the rest of their middles (so far) are
Robbie Mulhern (2021), Will Maher (2021), George Lawler (2021), George King (2022), Anesu Mudoti (2022).
not exactly the most fearful set of front rowers, although i do like mulhern, i think he could do ok somewhere like here or wigan off the bench. |
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"You could also say that after signing Rauhihi and being disappointed with what we got, the decision to sign Morley was ill-advised, especially giving him a hefty four year contract.
There was a reason why other clubs didn't want to offer Morley the security of a four year deal that we did - he was 29, had injury record and also had a bad disciplinary record and was coming off a lengthy ban.
Now nobody brings that up as a bad decision by the Warrington board, because of how Morley played for us, he even got another contract after those four years were up. But if we're honest, the sort of decision-making that brought Morley here, is the decision-making that brought us Langer and Rauhihi and Asotasi and Widdop and now Inglis.
Each one of these is a gamble and the way the original decision will be viewed depends entirely on how the player performs, although the rationale is the same.
Lots of Wire fans, including me, are probably pessimistic about Inglis at this point, because of what has happened with recent signings, but the closest analogy to bringing a great player out of (possibly premature) retirement, is Langer in 2000, who went on to play SoO level again. If Inglis does what Langer did it will be seen as a masterstroke that paid off.'"
Yes, every signing is a gamble, but we seem to be backing more and more outside bets in the hope they are much better when playing for us. Why do this when were struggling to get the best out of good players such as BMM. There will always be squad fillers within a SL club, but we need the ones with the desire and determination to wear the shirt, and a coaching system that's not afraid to give opportunity on merit. |
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BMM was a disappointment without doubt, but more to do with injuries than coaching I think.
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| Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"amor is another one, saints fans have wanted rid for a few years.
Puletua left in 2013 alongside the same time morley et al did here, how far back are we going
*also, massive thread drift here.'"
Last one they signed was Junior Paulo who sank into anonymity before being released. He didn't come cheap either. |
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| Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"Jason clark for example, is a middle, usually lines up at 13 but is used for your grunt work, but isn't what you would refer to as a loose forward'"
Clark? A big man????? I've seen bigger in the Dennis the Menace fan club.
Leeds, yeah they've had some duds but i did say they are also bringing better quality forwards through as well as signing them; even so their current pack is streets ahead of ours. |
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Quote ="morrisseyisawire"Clark? A big man????? I've seen bigger in the Dennis the Menace fan club.
Leeds, yeah they've had some duds but i did say they are also bringing better quality forwards through as well as signing them; even so their current pack is streets ahead of ours.'"
I never said he was a big man, thats the point,
Also, who are Leeds bringing through currently?
Here's leeds squad from.this year.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Le ... nos_season
Cam Smith, and oledzki, everyone else is either foreign or has been brought in. Or back end of the squad fillers, much like Doro and robson .
I realise I sound like im arguing or being contrary with everyone on this thread, im not, its just that a lot of people want to kick warrington and the board at the moment but if you look at things on a league wide basis, things aren't that much better across the board. |
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Quote ="morrisseyisawire"Clark? A big man????? I've seen bigger in the Dennis the Menace fan club.
Leeds, yeah they've had some duds but i did say they are also bringing better quality forwards through as well as signing them; even so their current pack is streets ahead of ours.'"
I never said he was a big man, thats the point,
Also, who are Leeds bringing through currently?
Here's leeds squad from.this year.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Le ... nos_season
Cam Smith, and oledzki, everyone else is either foreign or has been brought in. Or back end of the squad fillers, much like Doro and robson .
I realise I sound like im arguing or being contrary with everyone on this thread, im not, its just that a lot of people want to kick warrington and the board at the moment but if you look at things on a league wide basis, things aren't that much better across the board. | |
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| Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"I never said he was a big man, thats the point, .'"
Yes you did, you said middles were big men then referred to Clark as a middle.
And yes you do sound contrary and a little disingenuous but you could always hit the lock button and kill the debate, again. |
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| Quote ="morrisseyisawire"Clark? A big man????? I've seen bigger in the Dennis the Menace fan club.
Leeds, yeah they've had some duds but i did say they are also bringing better quality forwards through as well as signing them; even so their current pack is streets ahead of ours.'"
Different comic but I wonder if Desperate Dan fancies it, he’s a big man  |
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| Quote ="karetaker"Different comic but I wonder if Desperate Dan fancies it, he’s a big man
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He is a pie eater though. |
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| Quote ="morrisseyisawire"Clark? A big man????? I've seen bigger in the Dennis the Menace fan club.
Leeds, yeah they've had some duds but i did say they are also bringing better quality forwards through as well as signing them; even so their current pack is streets ahead of ours.'"
Leeds pack better than ours? Our front row is as good as anyone in the league and streets ahead of Leeds. The problem we had last season was being completely clueless in the opposition 20. The forwards did their job getting us great field position, the 'playmakers' let us down big style. We need a new coach FAR more importantly than a new prop. |
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| Quote ="morrisseyisawire"Yes you did, you said middles were big men then referred to Clark as a middle.
And yes you do sound contrary and a little disingenuous but you could always hit the lock button and kill the debate, again.'"
Firstly, please check your PMs.
Secondly, youve completely ignored the 2nd part of my post, he does the tackling, in the middle of the field, like the props/rest of the middle players.
Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"Middles are now yer big men that play in the middle of the field, not always an out n out prop.
Jason clark for example, is a middle, usually lines up at 13 but is used for your grunt work, but isn't what you would refer to as a loose forward'" |
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We keep buying props, we buy old props, young props, established props, unknown props, big hitting props and technical props...............and then we play e when it matters in the playoffs or GF because Tony didn't like us being thugs and playing final footy and Price doesn't, well, Price doesn't like play offs seemingly (bar 201icon_cool.gif
To completely derail the thread...... who's our enforcer these days, our bit of nasty? Genuinely think Mamo was the last bloke to not accept being bullied by that pulling his hair vs Catalan's.
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| Quote ="Moe syslak"Leeds pack better than ours? Our front row is as good as anyone in the league and streets ahead of Leeds. The problem we had last season was being completely clueless in the opposition 20. The forwards did their job getting us great field position, the 'playmakers' let us down big style. We need a new coach FAR more importantly than a new prop.'"
I think we need both in all honesty. I don't think it's the props we have starting it's what's in reserve thats the problem. Hill, Cooper and Philbin are great the rest aren't good enough. New coach and another prop would be nice. |
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| Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"amor is another one, saints fans have wanted rid for a few years.
Puletua left in 2013 alongside the same time morley et al did here, how far back are we going
*also, massive thread drift here.'"
Yet he's signed a contract extension with both Holbrook and Woolf there. They must rate him, Amor always does a job for me, he'd walk on to our bench.
Had to go back to 2013 as Amor and LMS have been there for years.
Paulo - so is that one dud forward signing in the last 7 years? That's not a bad strike rate considering we make one every season. |
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| Quote ="Lord Tony Smith"Yet he's signed a contract extension with both Holbrook and Woolf there. They must rate him, Amor always does a job for me, he'd walk on to our bench.
Had to go back to 2013 as Amor and LMS have been there for years.
Paulo - so is that one dud forward signing in the last 7 years? That's not a bad strike rate considering we make one every season.'"
luke douglas,
peyroux (mixed opinions)
tasi (as we know)
vea
masoe
and manu
They've also signed some crap like shannon mcdonell, ryan morgan, and jack owens in the backs.
Every team signs some cloggers, its just that the grass is always greener for some. |
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| Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"luke douglas,
peyroux (mixed opinions)
tasi (as we know)
vea
masoe
and manu
They've also signed some crap like shannon mcdonell, ryan morgan, and jack owens in the backs.
Every team signs some cloggers, its just that the grass is always greener for some.'"
Peyroux has been great for them. Had one bad season in his first year but since then he's been very good. Masoe was decent also. I'll give you the others although i think most of them went on to win a Grand Final. Their strike rate is definitley better than ours. It has to be - we have a bloke playing for us who wouldn't get in the Crosfields Team in Latu. |
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| Quote ="Lord Tony Smith"Peyroux has been great for them. Had one bad season in his first year but since then he's been very good. Masoe was decent also. I'll give you the others although i think most of them went on to win a Grand Final. Their strike rate is definitley better than ours. It has to be - we have a bloke playing for us who wouldn't get in the Crosfields Team in Latu.'"
masoe was a slightly better sita, ten minute huffs and puffs |
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Peyroux is a perfect example of how a change of coach can get the best out of players. Saints fans wanted him out before Holbrook arrived.
Same can be said of Monaghan with us.
I don't see one player in the wire squad that you could say the same about under Price.
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Lineham, Hughes have been better under Price than TS. Philbin and King have come along well under Price.
On the other hand, Patton and Currie have gone backwards.
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