I'd still swap.

I bloody knew I was leaving someone out. Westwood to interchange then. Sack off Ratch

would you swap coaches?

Lol happens to the best of us.

while were on the subject of westwood... its also a sad state of affairs that a converted , on his last legs, is our only impact forward.

when the going gets tough, Hill has to go off and we get absolutely smashed silly up the middle of the pitch.... westwood is the only man we have to stand up.. often to a whole pack.

its ok though... we won a challenge cup back in 2012

I would definitely drop him next week. He was anonymous today except when he got a pass a knocked on.

I am pretty sure it's more to do with keeping Russell and Ratchford in the team, than not liking Penny.
Penny just doesn't fit in anywhere when those two play but I feel the same as others, we definitely need to bring him back. The wingers we are playing now are not in their most effective positions.

Sims has been quite a poor signing I think, considering the money he must be on... doesn't really offer anything in attack, too small.

i gave him the benefit of doubt last season... but he is bang average, makes no yards and offers very little... never a prop.... we used to have morley, carvell, wood and cooper... all 4 are way above him

We were completely toss out wide today hopeless shambolic and pathetic. ..and before we make excuses reel off that saints back line to yourself....in fact don't it had the calibre of peroux and owens. ...there wasn't a single decent opposition centre or winger up against us today and they ran round us and held us out at every opportunity. ....

Its this kind of arrogance from Smith that persists, and simply deflates all optimism from a semi final win. ...
Tony king finished two great tries last week in a one sided game. ..he was out of his depth tonight and believe me that depth wasn't deep. ...

Massively mickey'd off.....

this side wont win a grand final under the tenure of smith.

i will be happy to eat my words.... but i dont see it happening.

Anonymous?...He was our top tackler.

Erm........no.

Westerman, Hill, currie our top 3 in that order. He looked a bit tired but anonymous is off the mark.

It doesn't help when your two first choice wingers are putting a lot of effort into their off field late night activities, I must say Penny looks better on it than Lineham does!!

TS found out and "bobs yer uncle"

That's just not true.

Penny was playing really well and he always made good yards, even in the tackle, even when forwards tackle him. He catches high balls well as his leap is fantastic and he's rapid.

He didn't have a bad game early in the season and then just disappeared from the team.

For me as well, Russell brings more to the table than Ratchford at full back. Ratchford's best position is centre. He is no full back. He's no organiser, his defence is weak, his metres from the line are poor, he carries the ball in one hand which drives me nuts and he only every now and again adds to be a third pivot. Play him inside Lineham on the right edge. He can do all that there. In fact, he looked at his best as a utility hooker/third halfback/loose forward whatever he was earlier in the season coming off the bench!

Also from the bench last night we had no go forward and didn't even use Wilde. Bailey and Cox were nowhere to be seen and when Hill and Sims were off the pitch we looked lightweight. Even if Cox isn't a fit man with no spleen or whatever it is that stops him getting fit, a good 10 minutes in each half from him is surely better than 0 minutes from Wilde? And if not where the hell was Baiely who has done really well off the bench?

Russell
Lineham Evans Atkins Penny
Sandow Gidley
Hughes Westerman Currie
Hill Clark Sims

Ratchford Dwyer Westwood Bailey

(Drop Sims to the bench for Dodds when Dodds in back)

Quote ="CW8"Westerman, Hill, currie our top 3 in that order. He looked a bit tired but anonymous is off the mark.'" Stats for the game www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... port/13027

Quote ="CW8"Westerman, Hill, currie our top 3 in that order. He looked a bit tired but anonymous is off the mark.'" Stats for the game www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... port/13027

If Dodds were fit he'd be our starting prop. He's better than Sims. I find him too weak (he's not small, look t the size of him when he squared up to Walmsley) but he doesn't make any metres in the tackle and doesn't make any breaks.

Last night was another example of square pegs in round holes........

Ratchford should be played at centre. He is far more effective and offers more threat. If he's being played at full back to come into the line as an extra pivot then he should get himself into that position more often like Hodgeson did in every game.

Evans is never a winger. He doesn't drop back enough and thus gets caught out of position. If he'd have done what wingers do, and jumped for the last try, it would have been awarded. Lineham or Penny would have scored.

Russell is a full back. He's wasted on the wing. His kick returns are far better than Ratchford's.

Toby King needs to be dropped for the sake of his own confidence. He looked ten-fathoms out of his depth last night. I was watching him though my hands in the 2nd half. Very awkward viewing.

If Gidley isn't fit, play Patton. Or at least have Patton on the bench instead of a 2nd row who doesn't get a minutes game time. I'm still scratching my head ?

With tongue in cheek...
Half the problem. Had he done some attacking he might not need do so much tackling.

And what has Ben Julien done to get the cold shoulder? The few times he has played he couldn't be faulted. I believe Bailey was injured. Every season seems to get stranger at the Wire.

I agree with all except Russell at fb, he may fit that criteria in a pigmy league but not SL.
However he does return a ball well and run well from acting half, which does have its head scratching problem of where to play him.
Wane just got shut because of this problem. If anything he is the main square peg for a round hole in the team. A big good un, always beats a small good un.

Last night was Rhys Evans worse game for us, since he made his first team debut. He was massively out of position for 2 of the Saints tries, & single handedly presented the try opportunities.

He has been very accomplished in the right centre position, & the move to winger is a very strange selection, when other PLAYERS are available to play in that position.

Matt Russell`s form does not justify his continual selection in the starting 13. His strike rate is poor, he is very uncomfortable under the high ball(Such that Kevin Penny was having to move off the wing to catch the high balls for him, in many matches this season), but he does make decent ground from the play the ball. I don`t consider a winger should be selected purely on the basis of the metres he makes from dummy half, this is only one facet of wing play.

Lineham is a complete enigma, & wasn`t even selected for the reserves recently. Has he been suspended by the club, without an announcement to the media?

Did Wilde get on the field last night? I don't recall seeing him. As for Russell, he is like a headless chicken, not a rugby brain in his body. Ratchford has far more ability and nous.

I was really disappointed in Toby King last night, a player I've always admired. Rhys Evans is a centre, would Jack Johnstone(sp) not have been a better option on the wing?

I already commented on the other thread about Wilde not playing and why waste a bench spot