Who's tried to sign Jake Webster?

Big blow for rugby league in this country if the Tomkins brothers leave for Union.
We need to increase the salary cap somehow - we know theres not much money floating about ( the red hall beaks need replacing with fresh blood , have done for years now) - but there has to be a way of rewarding our top stars with better wages/sponsorhip deals or Union will continue keep on nicking our best talent like Ashton , Eastmmond et al.

I don't think the RFL need to do anything, personally. If the players in question or any players for that matter can gain a better contract in RU, then that is upto them, they'll be replaced by their respective clubs and a new star will emerge.

I didn't hear Wigan fans saying all this when Eastmond was on the move. Why didn't they all call the RFL rotten then.

Joel will make a decision, it's a tough one, for every Robinson & Ashton who've cracked it there's a Farrell, Raynor, Vainikolo, Hape, Pryce, Walker, Smith so they're making a big decision.

Ask Lee Smith, water carrier of the year 2011 should he have gone to RU.

Sometimes, it's not all about the money is it.

Not all about the money? In Rugby, where wages are massively lower than football etc - then it is. Its a short career and you cant blame them for moving. Go to Union, if it does not work out, then they will soon get a deal at another SL Club in all fairness.
Yes, there have been more failures than successes but still isnt right. Imho.

Then you musn't have looked far, there was a lot of Wigan fans saying that even though it was Saints, he would still be a massive loss to the game.

If it doesn't work you come back, but everything has moved on. As I say, there's real life examples in the form of Walker, Smith & Pryce that you don't just resume where you left off.

If Joel is motivated by money, he'll have to weigh up that if it goes belly up, what he had before might not just be sat waiting for him. If it's double your salary but if in 3/4 years time it hasn't worked out in RU and you're back in RL playing for Bradford sat in 9th at the age of 26/27 it might not have been worth it. He's at a club he loves, he could have 10 good years there, build a legend or possibly be unhappy by the time he hots his peak, big risk.

He'll not be on buttons at Wigan and I reckon he could seek a better deal in the NRL.

Yes, there maybe some concerns in SOME players going to the 3 point game, but look at those that have in the last few decades

Significant loses
Harris..went in his pomp (mid 20's) and had been a huge talent from 16
Robinson ...again, at the top of his game RL wise

yet to be seen
Ashton..has hit the headlines on occasions, but not exatly been a world beater (from what I hear)
Eastmond ...yet to pass (I mean kick) a ball
Tomkins...as above, but again, he's wasn't exactly Wayne Pearce in our game

and then there's a long list of failures/never made the grades/gone through the motions which JWP alluded to. Also Henry Paul, Connolly, Griffiths, even our own legends Johnathan Davies and Allan Bateman didn't exactly turn the world upside down, when they returned home after their stints with us (yes, I know Bateman got Welsh caps in his mid 30's, but that was an indictment on how slow Union was, compared to League).

ATEOTD, in the 80's, Hanley never turned, nor the two Gregorys, Lydon, Edwards, Mark Forster etc, and more recently Sculthorpe, Morley, Radlinski, Senior, Long Joynt...so the grass isn't always greener.

Providing there isn't a mass exodus, I don't think many at RedHall (and the respective clubs) will be losing much sleep.

In the words of Corporal Jones....DON'T PANIC

Ashton has been a world beater, with the exception of this world cup, he's been Englands star player the last 18 months, and has bagged 86 tries in 97 games for Northampton, which is incredibly for a sport where no-one scores tries!

He's not exactly got a lot of stiff opposition, to be a stand out player. I have no interest at all in RU, but have read some of the letters on SkyText saying how boring England are at RU. Ashton is bound to stand out, with the flair he already has, before it's stifled out of him.

With the exception of this world cup (as you quote)...well that's where people are remembered by many, and he's not done much (so I hear) when it's the big stage. It's OK taking the p155 against Argentina, Scotland and Italy at Twickers, but (apparently) he's just been Joe Average this time round...oh hang on, I get it now. He's ex Wigan, and therefore exempt from criticism from fellow Wiganers.

Ellery never went because union was amateur in his day. I bet if Ellery had been around today he would have been looking at union, he was never exactly afraid of being controversial and he made sure he got paid well whatever he did....Ellery would have known the potential for him to be the biggest superstar in world rugby, if he crossed codes, if they put Hanley in the centres or wing he would have been for England what Jonah Lomu was at his peak for the All Blacks.

Bateman was still a good player in union, him and Scott Gibbs both played for British Lions after they went back and as for Bateman getting Welsh caps in his mid 30s in union being an indictment on how slow the game is...Bateman would have walked into the Welsh and possibly GB team in his mid 30s in league, he was still playing for Wales in 2000 and 2001 and I would rather have had him in the centres at Warrington than Roper or Sibbit. I think with Davies he was right at the end of his career and also unfortunately for him, didn't crossing back to union coincide with the time his wife was seriously ill with breast cancer, so he had bigger things on his plate.

Ashton as inside man says, has been good in union, you can bet had he been still in league with the Pies, he would have been one of the top scorers in the league, Phil Clarke would have been saying he was up there with Offiah.

However I do agree with JWP above that if players go to union and then come back, they never seem to pick up where they left off before. If players want to go they have to make the decision to go and stick with union in the long run to make it. Harris and Henry Paul are the best examples, they were the best players in SL when they left, and whilst they weren't old and over the hill when they came back, the game had moved on and they never got back to those levels. Ironically for Harris, after 2 years in union he had just cracked union and become a good player, Harris was quality in the 2003 World Cup for Wales, but the WRU couldn't afford to give him another contract on the same big money and he came back to league. Who knows how differently Harris' career would have gone if he had either stayed in league from the start, or stayed in union after 2003...

OOOPPS on Hanley (I forgot about the great 1995 ending of so called 'amateur players' in RU), and yes, on reflection Hanley WOULD have switched codes. After all, one of his nicknames was Salary Hanley, in one of his stints in Aus RL.
But I don't get your walking into a GB shirt (for Bateman), Sal, as he didn't get many appearances (iirc) when he was in his pomp in RL (Connolly got 20 odd caps, and was at best, average in International games) and he was always picked ahead of him (Bateman) as a centre.

But my point was, not a lot of players have actually made the jump from League to Union in 16 years, and even less have made a success of it, hence the don't panic bit, at the end. Let Tomkins go with minimal fuss. There's a fair chance he'll be back with his tail between his legs by 2015, because he's
a) not made the 'grade'
b) bored 5h1tless
c) wants to be challenged more

It's a short career in sport, and it would seem RU Headquarters have waved a huge carrot in front of him. He'd be mad not to take it. But when we all wake up the following day, RL will still be here, and not much sleep will be lost

We didn't moan & worry when Fylde RUFC swooped for Nicky Royle.

I wonder if the fact that Connolly played for Wigan had anything to do with his selection over Bateman



But yes I agree with you the 'success rate' of players going from league to union is not that great..

As good/better in union than in league: Robinson, Ashton, Stephen Myler

Not as good in union as they were in league: Henry Paul, Harris, Farrell, Vainikolo, Carney, Lee Smith, Walker, Karl Pryce, Raynor

The Wids did

loving that avatar sal.

Couldn't agree with you more Sal, re the Connolly / shirt he was wearing at the time. For instance, I give you Billy McGinty. Could barely get on the subs bench for us, yet, within 6 months, he's a starter for GB, down under, in a Test Series. I know Monie was a good coach, but even Jesus Himself, would have struggled to pull-off a miracle like that.

Can't really comment on players being better in Union than in League, as I don't watch it. Out of interest, where is Stephen Myler? I take it it isn't Sale, as I'd have heard his name on Radio Manchester's sports reports.

Again Sal (as you seem to be well read on Union), what happened to Vainikolo? I heard he started off like a train and got a load of tries when he first started. Did he just become pooh overnight? I've no idea. Was always awesome in League....same with Hape

Myler is at Northampton with Ashton, he's done really well for them and has been mentioned for England in despatches.

Vainikolo was fastracked to the England side, made a promising start but I think around the time when Johnson took over wasn't looked at favourably. I think he topped the scoring charts in the domestic stuff or was up there at the end of the season with a try tally of 12 or something fantastic like that.

Hape was taken to the WC, just lost his place (somewhat unfairly) when Tuilangi became English.

Oh, the irony.

That must have been a staggering season in RU, then (re Vainikolo). As I remember him scoring 5 of his 12 tries in one game.

Stephen Myler plays for Northampton with Ashton. He has done pretty well for himself in union, fairly low key player but he is first choice stand off for Northampton and has been a prolific points scorer for them. I think Myler was a bit underrated in league, it didn't help him being a young stand-off in struggling sides, I reckon had he been in the youth system of Saints for example he could have done much better like Lee Gaskell has done. He's more of a kicking halfback than a running halfback so union suits him more and is maybe a reason why he has adapted to union better than some bigger name league converts. If he was to come back to league, I think he might surprise some people. It would be controversial on here but I would take a look at him when we come to look for options to replace Briers, at least ask Richie to sound him out and see if he would be interested in coming back. He is more experienced and polished now than the kid we saw at Widnes and Salford.

Vainikolo - in fairness to him he hasn't been bad in union, he has scored his fair share of tries for Gloucester, but he only played a few England games and was dropped and not looked at again, he's been a good rather than great player. With hindsight Bradford moved him on just at the right time, he was still at the top of his game in 2007 when he left (had scored 16 tries in 17 for Bradford that season, and he got 5 on his union debut) but from 2008 onwards he has been declining (I suppose he was 29 and had played a very physical style during his career and so wear and tear may have taken its toll).

In fairness to Manu Tuilagi, he did go to school and play his junior rugby in England, he isn't a Rangi Chase type player. The controversy with him was his family were illegal immigrants. They had come to the UK on a holiday visa and then stayed on the quiet for about 6 years, and they got faced with deportation, I remember that being in the news, the only way he could stay was to apply for asylum but Samoa isn't a country known for human rights abuses. In the end he got granted indefinite leave to remain. Maybe another with a pet cat...

Let's not forget that the next RU World Cup is in England in 2015. After their debacle this time round, there can be little doubt they'll throw even more money at the next campaign. I think the problem for them is, though, that there are a limited number of RL players they can realistically target - forwards are pretty much out of the question in terms of being able to make a successful switch. Unless of course they decide to play them in the three-quarters



Joel Tomkins is no great loss to RL in the grand scheme of things. Sam will probably follow, unless he has the nuts to test himself in the NRL. Can't really see which position Eastmond is going to play in.

It's swings and roundabouts. Union players were once poached for League. Now it's th'opposite way around. In a few years the tables will turn again. Just let it happen. It's no big deal. I mean take the worst case scenario,for some, and imagine that Sam Tomkins went to the dark side. We'd have people screaming blue murder and arguing for a response from the authorities. I doubt anything would happen and within a couple of weeks we'd have moved on. Some young lad would have been promoted into the Wigan first team squad and we'd be marvelling about a 'new star'.

For those worried about any impact in terms of our international ability should any players switch codes, I really wouldn't bother.

The tables will not be turning, full stop.

Don't forget Wigan have got a strong factory of young talent coming through the younger grades as Rogues Gallery has been reporting on.

well, you saw the u20s grand final, right?