'Hunt the error' has become a favourite phrase among certain sections of supporter. What it means though is that you take your sets, then pump the ball deep into the opposition half. You then defend in their 20-30m and hope they make a mistake on which to capitalise. There is no doubt that you are playing the odds with this type of football. You make few passes when you are in possession and avoid risky offloads. You certainly don't pass the ball down the line because somebody might drop it. You don't make long passes because someone might intercept. You keep it away from the wingman because he might get forced into touch. You don't kick over the top because the opposition might collect it. The trouble is, it's boring. Four or so drives, then a kick. Followed by four or so drives and a kick from the opposition. We are into Rugby Union territory here, where you can pop out and make a cup of tea whilst the penalty is taken, or the scrum is reset for the fourth time, or everyone sorts themselves out for the lineout.

RL does not appear to be growing in this country, if anything it is in slow decline. There has been a big drop in attendances for most clubs over the past couple of years and to date, little sign that the new structure is increasing those figures. We need to remember who pays for our sport - increasingly, it aint the fan who goes to watch week in week out. Next year, the whole of a SL clubs salary bill ( £1.8million) will be paid for by Sky. If we didn't have that income, you would be down at Crosfields or Thatto Heath watching amateur rugby. So we need the armchair fan who is prepared to pay a hefty subscription for watching the game. And the stale, chessboard type of rugby which eschews avoiding any risk in the pursuit of the points will not 'do it' for Jo Bloggs sitting in his living room at 26 Acacia Avenue, Letchworth. He wants to see big hits, fast flowing rugby, length to length tries etc, not some boring kick fest with two sets of forwards marching back and forward across his screen all 'hunting the error'.

Love it.

I find any criticism of Clarke and Sims odd to say the least, Clarke for me is just starting to settle and show glimpses of what we were expecting but he is a bit off his man of steel form , i'd say he's settled quicker than Michael Monaghan did, so thats a good sign surely.

Sims is doing exactly what I expected, working hard,never shirking a hit up, tackling everything that moves and being a presence on the field. if people where expecting a prop that repeatedly breaks the line and trundles it twenty yards a carry there are one or two players in the world that do that and one is warming a bench in rugby union.

we are shamefully carrying a dreadful passenger in Asotasi hopefully on England's Return he will be dropped and Sims can step up a gear. I shudder to think what yesterday would have been like Had we had Waterhouse on and not Sims.

On Second thoughts Waterhouse was better than Currie is currently performing so I may have to re think that..

Standard season then!

I expect at least one final appearance with the squad we have though. No excuses if we can't do that.

Think you'll find Monaghan started as a 7, despite not having played there for 2 years previously in the NRL. So hardly like for like comparison is it?

Sims has been workmanlike and that's to be expected, but both time against big packs has been dominated and offered little. The reason we were constantly on the back foot was because of the fact the forwards got smashed, and the Saints kicking game was a million times better than ours, admittedly that's pack responsibility rather than just Sims

At present you'd be hard pressed to defend the investment we've made in Sims and Clark, who we all know is here for 2 years end of story

That's my point. Despite the constant Tony Smith soundbite. 'We'll learn some lessons from the defeat' We [uNEVER[/u do and make the same mistakes in the crunch games.

Throw the ball about at all costs, never earn the right to do it, that's on the back (in last night's case) a battered pack, and in almost all games in the last 18 months on the back of a dreadful kicking game, that Crosfields would be ashamed of, yet if you listen to Smith, 'We were a bit off' The blame for not addressing that lies totally at the door of Smith and his coaches

Happy you're the opposite of me in the optimism stakes, but with the halves we have available, we'll not seriously challenge in either comp

To be honest, I've not seen an awful lot of Clark. He's one of those players who never seems to be around when I'm watching.

The lad clearly has talent. But he's cocky, too.

I don't necessarily have an issue with cocky players - provided they back it up. At Saints we've been blessed with some truly great hookers. I mean, Roby & Cunningham are/were many things. But if they were ever cocky (perhaps KC - a bit, but more off the field than on. Certainly not Roby) it was only AFTER they'd cemented their bona fides.

Compared to veterans such as the likes of Peacock, Wellens, Westwood etc. Clark hasn't done jack. And they'd all remind him of that because there have been plenty of players who've thought they were great before they actually were.

I think one of the problems we are having with RL at the minute is the constant to & fro kicking game that is stopping a lot of free flowing moves being performed. Maybe it is time to experiment without the 6 tackle rule & put the onus on the defending team to get possession from their opponents thus making ball retention even more important. As for last night i thought at times our forwards were lethargic in getting back following Saints downfield kicks which at times left our defending backs with too much to do. Penny was left too often defending against 2 or 3 players when left isolated by our defence moving across.
I think a major plus that Saints have is sat in the stands ....Keiron Cunningham is the man with the winning attitude ,has been in his playing days & is now as the coach .....He was instrumental in Saints recent glory days & his players will follow him through hell & high water to get a result. This is not the best Saints team but with KC in charge i can imagine Saints being a dominant force for many years to come.

It's not the best team. But aside from when Paul Anderson joined from Bradford for a couple of years I'm struggling to think of a better Saints pack. And I'm going back three decades.

Anderson and Millward had better backs. But with the likes of Makinson, Swift & Percival we are a good way toward fixing that problem.

I think probably the shrewdest signings for you have been your English forwards ,Amor, Walmesley & LMS ,just like us with Hill & England. I think this where the academy game needs reinstating to bring British players through .

Beaten by the better side last night. Their pack was better ours. Thaler had a stinker in my opinion, but this didn't have a bearing on the outcome. We were our own worst enemy. What is worrying me is that after each loss we end up talking about our kicking game and the lack of leadership from half back. Surely Tony Smith has to realise that this current set up just is not going to work. if he want to win that elusive GF he is going to have to find a class, organising half back who knows how to turn a team around. The kicks we were putting in were so so poor, and have been since Briers hung his boots up.

As other people have mentioned, we have no-one to blame but ourselves. We knew the Briers' retirement was coming, albeit a year sooner, so you can be forgiven for going with what had for 2014. But, so far this season, we have proved what we are missing, and the club and the coach are to blame for this. Interesting season ahead, it does worry me that the two big tests weve had so far (away from home), that we have been convincingly beaten. Catalan was by two great half back, last night, by a second rower playing at 7!! That should not be happening!!

On a side note, whoever keeps bad mouthing Penny at matches about his defensive play, id be more inclined to direct it at the centres and second rowers who are consistently hanging him out to dry, moving inside and leaving him defending half a pitch on his own!!! He's been great this year, and as a Warrington lad, I am made up for the way he has come back into the fold, hes 100 times the player he was in my opinion, give the lad a break!

Bring on the Giants!!

To be fair, there's been a good deal of luck involved. Whilst Amor, Walmsley & company came with plenty of potential - it's something else entirely for them to exceed all expectations.

Take the likes of Vea, for instance. Here's a guy who is effectively on the scrapheap. And yet last night he turns in a 200+ meter performance. And he's been doing the same since he arrived.

Sometimes you get the breaks. Mostly you don't.

If he stays fit then I reckon you hav the 2015 Man of Steel in Vea - so far he looks excellent

Any ibecillic fans who have a pop at Penny's defence annoy me greatly too. So far he has to be in the top 3 of our best performers this season a much of the blame has to be placed on his inside defence.

It's early days, I can't believe all the negativity. What es me off as much is the number of posters who only come on here to moan and if we'd won, we wouldn't even know they were members of this forum.

1/10.

Must.....try.....harder.

Try harder at what ?

Based on what I watched last night, you aren't competing with Saints when it matters. There's barely a player you've got that'd make our 17.

Chris Hill is one of them and he deserves to play for a title winning club. Fine prop forward. The only forward I'd take from Warrington.

For a start I'd have anyone above Wellens!

Well given what you did with James Graham you would know all about good props never winning titles in Crap sides and having to move on...so I bow to your superior knowledge. Enjoy the nrl Chris. ....

Graham won a SL title in 2006

... And a World club challenge in 2007

Moved up slightly, 2/10. Still, again, need to try harder.

Disappointed with the amount of gloom, we have a few players to come back, Catalan was always a banana skin, and a win at saints was always a tuff ask with injuries and some players not fully fit, however we are third, and have already put rhinos to the sword, and I see no crisis ahead, but gradual improvement, the return of England will ease pressure on hilly and Simms, and Joel will give us that cutting edge finishing we need,, so on to Huddersfield ,, victory and we are nicely positioned !!
We are always in the fight!!

Exactly we were far worse off this time last season and smith found a way for us to get some momentum. We weren't far off last year and we will be there or thereabouts again once we get some rhythm. It'll come.

The negativity on here is rather astonishing.

We have just a lost a game (that we could have won) to the 2014 GF winning side away from home.

It is impossible to play at your very best every week!

Thought overall we were very comfortable last night and should have won by a bigger margin. We seemed to switch off towards the end and the tries we gave away to Higham (albeit earlier in the night) and Hill were diabolical! We'll need to work on our concentration if we want to win it again this year, which we SHOULD do, as I feel we've got the best squad. Not counting chickens though, should have won it in '07 and '08, you should have won it in '11, so we know what can happen.

All that said, I still think you're the team that's going to contest the trophies with us this year. I thought last night was an off night for you rather than an indication of where you're at. You were much better against Leeds last week. Also agree with the sentiments from a few of you about Penny, been really impressed with him. Probably your best back throughout the season so far! No need to panic for you lads, you'll be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. You were much worse at the beginning of last year and you still managed to come close. Probably should have beat Wigan in that semi.

And had we'd beaten wigan we'd have rinsed saints in that final!