No and I believe he had a shocker but from what I've seen of him generally, he's a big upgrade

Penny is a winger.
At the moment, he's our only winger with winger's pace. He has a proven scoring rate. Yes, he makes mistakes, as does EVERY winger in RL

Russell is a Full Back, not a winger
(not that I've got anything against him), but Lineham (according to Hessel Roader...a Hull fan, on this site today) has had a stinker, v Cas.

After tonight, Penny should be the least of your scapegoat issues

well said..penny tried his socks off and plays with plenty of passion pride or whatever..look at most of that lot tonight and compare them to pennys efforts,,as the duck said he scored 80% of our points tonight and they needed scoring...our best player tonight by a mile..and he still gets slagged off

He just isn't big enough, its a shame because he is exciting to watch, But in today's super league your wingers are almost part of the forward pack, it is essential they're able to make good metres from dummy half to help set the platform, and he just doesn't have the physicality to do this, the likes of Hall and Briscoe would man handle him. This lack of size also hurts him defensively.

There is a reason the majority of NRL wingers are huge,and the shorter ones tend to be stocky/or very smart (Penny is neither)

I'm not scapegoating him for tonight's game at all. I agree he was one of our better performers. I just don't think he's good enough generally for us and where we should be.

Injuries to the forwards meant we never had a chance tonight and 13 'spirit of penny's' wouldn't have gotten us a win either as the quality wasnt there.

I think I must have been watching a different game or something. Everyone is talking about the poor performances (true) because the players didn't care (false). Watch the players! Look at the effort they are putting in, and tell me they don't care. What they are is completely exhausted! We were run off the park by an incredible Leeds side, after how many weeks of having less than 17 fully fit players to choose from every week? Not only are we missing the best part of a dozen right now, we had three straight back from injuries, a few more carrying them (Philbin had his leg strapped up, I think Monaghan and Ratchford were too), England went off early on... The players who haven't been injured are dead on their feet, not just from Leeds possession but from weeks of having to pick up the slack from the gaps we've had. Did Hill get taken off earlier for a break, or did he actually play the entire first 67 minutes? He seemed to be running and tackling like he was still playing up front.

You can see it in their faces how much they are trying, but they're shattered from weeks of injuries and disappointment and knowing that we're going to struggle to make the playoffs at all. Obviously this doesn't excuse the poor (or lack of) attacking play we've had, that's a different problem and Sandow looks good to help fix that. We have our problems but lashing out at the entire team and coach too, given the circumstances, is just ridiculous.

Hill did play the first 67 minutes, & was probably only pulled off when the game was gone

its been like this for the majority of the season..just like tonight our performances this season have just not been good enough i.e hull and cas at home widnes away to name 3.time for a really big clear out..for a start myler( thank god hes going ) england not good enough asotasi simply bilge atkins bone idle obrien hunslet beckons joel to slow but thanks for your efforts..get shut of those for starters

You were always going to struggle without Westwood and Harrison.
I thought Sandow showed some good touches and when fit will be a great signing for you.
Clark blew hot and cold and is a shadow of his last years form.
Ratchford alongside Sandow could be a good pairing.
Penny for me was your best player and at least kept trying.
On another note we have lost Aiton with a broken arm which is a major loss for us.

wish i was pulled off after the game was gone..

































:

Also, can't help but think that Westwoods incident at Cas might have put the nail in the coffin for our season. His work rate, go forward and experience has been badly missed the last 2 games.

Good game to lose ,by fewer points would've been nice but,as was always going to be the case the team looked disjointed ,we are basically putting out a different team each week ,hopefully they can click better against Cas because that is a must win game ,tonight wasn't

How much you wanting for Clark? Poor lad must be knackered playing for your bunch. Your Bubble has severely burst. Cheers sandow for doing the team talk for us.

Penny took the ball up, plenty of times on the first tackle (when the ball had been kicked dead by Leeds) and had equalled Sims' efforts, in the amount of metres gained/tackles bust.....judge from that, what you will

I think that was a different problem. Earlier in the season we seemed to have the players and the staff falling out, people weren't putting the effort in. Tonight they did, they just didn't have enough left in them to make it work.

Can't say I agree with you on those names, not all of them anyway, but that's your opinion. The biggest question is who do you replace them with? You think we can drop two props, when we're already short, and magic some better ones out of thin air?

I think it is evident from the strange looking team sheet for the game that maybe TS has had to scrape the barrel to put a team out tonight. We were overwhelmed by a team at the top of their game & i think the game provided a good argument for the theory of needing experience to win games more so than youth.

I agree with you on the youth point, king and philbin looked well short tonight, and Wilde was a passenger, but in no way are they poor, it's just tonight V a rampant Leeds team, they shouldn't have been anywhere near the starting 17, but the squad is battered at the min, and all these calls for props, there are none, next season will be hill Simms England , and another, how's about a decent forwards coach, then we wouldn't need to be hunting anyone, just developing what we have,,
The super 8 high intensity games to finish season off can only be won by sides with strength in depth, and luck by how many injuries they have
It's only going to get worse as these crunching games continue one,,

When Wire beat Leeds in both regular season matches even though they were not cricket scores, we were WELL beaten. Wire came up with a game plan that nullified us and we never looked like getting anything out of either game; well done TS and the team.

(As regards to last nights game) all I seem to have read on here is how many forward passes, off-sides etc,etc the ref let Leeds get away with. This coupled with Wire generally having such "bad luck" as well. Mmm.

Have you read any of the posts in this thread?

Wire beat Leeds because BMc rested Sinfield and Spelled Burrow against us so he could blood Sutcliffe with experience. BMc found himself fortunate because even though Leeds lost, so did all the teams just under them.

Sky Sports seem to think he was dropped because of form, dont kid yourself.

Leeds were still top or second even though they lost 6 out of 8 games. So BMc continued blooding Sutcliffe until the point it mattered, when both Burrow and Sinfield return to major roles and duly won.

Since Sutcliffe has been injured I don't recall them losing a game with BMc forced to play Sinfield.

Actually, from Tony Smith downwards the vast majority of online comments are about how good Leeds were and how poor Wire by comparison.

He scored two good tries last night, ran in hard, took a good share of the work and defended with enthusiasm. He even got to Hardaker (too late ) after everyone else missed him. He deserves his spot in this team, maybe not the one of 2011, but then, few of these players would make that side.

I think the most telling stat was the areas of our PTBs vs Leeds' that Sky showed at HT.

We had no meaningful territory. You could could count on one hand the number on PTBs we had within Leeds' 20, which is a shame, as it'd have been nice to have seen our new HB with more ball in hand in a dangerous area, rather than having to kick from deep so often.

Leeds' bench was far superior to ours, and at the first set of interchanges, they brought on on Leuluai and Delaney. We brought on Roy, Wilde and King. It's telling that we conceded 14 very quick points as soon as we'd made our changes.

Singleton, Delaney, Leuluai > Roy, King, Wilde.

I maybe deluded,but i honestly think that what has dealt us a major blow is the lack of a reserve set up which has meant that over the last couple of years many promising players from all the clubs have been lost to the game because there has been nowhere for them to move to from the under 19s age group.Hopefully ,if the idea of a reserve team is resurrected then promising players will once more have another tier to progress through before being thrown into superleague. Injury wise we seem to be suffering for whatever reason,but you have to take your hat off to Brian Mc for managing his team to be ready for the play offs...but isn't that what management is all about ? All our rivals have had the same "opportunity" to pick up injuries but seem to be coping better...do we have a conditioning problem in the camp ? Finally, i think two players who have been missed are Wood & Higham for big game stability & experience.