Fine margins. We defended poorly on our right edge during the game, and we should have kicked through when nobody was covering their line, as Crichton and To'o moved up. Instead, Crichton gets an easy intercept. Williams got us back into the game for a second time, only for us not to complete the most important two set of the match in extra time. We just lacked individual composure that lost us the opportunity of scoring some points or stopping them being added to the against column.

Well done to Samoa, who found the way to get to the final.

The Samoa team almost all play in the NRL and several of them play for the champions.

Most of the England team play in Super League and possibly our best two players from the champions were missing.

I thought before the tournament it would be an Australia vs Samoa final. Unless Australia have a mare they'll walk the final. Luai won't have consecutive good games.

Agreed. Also, Sneyd should've been the other half with Welsby at fb. There are at least 4 better No.9s than Mickymac, and that right edge? Well, what more can you say?.

Yep Mickmac was a strange one.
Well past his best.
Leeds & Wire had two better attacking hookers.
No running threat at all.
.

He's Wane's love child, it's hardly suprising he was picked. Common knowledge that Wane has his favorites. This is on him.

I accept that there are technically better hookers than McIllorum available, but I think the areas of the game where ha can be faulted are about him being dominated in defence. It’s is without question that he is the most aggressive and resilient defender from those available, so if he couldn’t cope with the Samoa pack, who could?

I understand the argument, he’s not the best all round hooker. And if we had struggled to score points or to shift the ball cleanly from the ruck, I’d accept the argued against him, but we didn’t in truth. He just got picked out and worked over by a big pack. Houghton and Clark are good defenders, but not as aggressive and smaller/lighter. Leeming isn’t a bad defender but I’ve never picked him out to be his strongest aspect of the game. Ackers, not seen enough of him to have an informed opinion, but Wane has had 4 weeks with him.

I don’t think we need a scapegoat here. There are a few areas where it went wrong on the day.

Agree with your assessment of McIlorum, but what you forget to mention is that he offered no threat in attack. How often did you see him run from acting half back at the retiring Samoan defence. I don't recall a single occasion.
Yes Whitehead was excellent, bit oh if only he'd taken the tackle after his break at the end, a drop goal would have won it.
Overall a poor performance by too many players who had a good World Cup up to that game.

I’m not sure he was picked for his attacking skills though. His distribution is clean and effective, that is all he has ever has in attack. I think sometimes hookers who want to be playmakers can just get in the way, you pick halfbacks for a reason.

I would accept the argument on favourites to a point if this criticism was levelled at Bateman, as there have been players in that position who have been better than him this season. Now, there isn’t a person alive who knows anything about RL that would say that Bateman isn’t a top class player, but… people will argue that Bachelor has been better. It then boils down to personal preference and style. But there is nobody to compete with McIllorum for the aggressive confrontational style that Wane wants to play with.

Believe me, there is not a single half-back in the world who wants the ball fed in the same way all the time. Hookers have to be a threat otherwise it is so easy to defend. Micky Mac was a selection mistake and when he wasn't about for a short time on Saturday we looked much more dangerous.

So who would you pick then? No doubt there are more creative hookers, but if you start with that attribute you’re looking at McShane and Leeming. Neither of them are good enough against the best. Clark is a running threat, could be a decent option but not as good a defender. Houghton is a solid defender but nothing more. Roby, I think, retired from internationals, otherwise it would have been him first choice. So you’re left with Ackers, McIllorum, Powell, Hood. Powell is essentially a poor man’s McIllorum, no run threat, no creativity, just a defensive machine. Good, not at this level. So it’s a straight shootout between Ackers and McIllorum.

Clark not as good a defender? Strongly disagree there.

I think McIllorum is a better defender than Clark. He is so aggressive he causes a lot of problems for teams, including us on a number of occasions. Clark is a good defender, and has improved a lot over the years with us, but isn’t the confrontational and combative style of MM

For me McIlorum would not be considered for the reasons I have stated.
So Ackers looks favourite but Leeming is another option.

INCOMING STATS GEEK HERE!!!

Of the 8 current international options mentioned there (I think Hood is Scottish but he's included in this since he was mentioned) I've looked at the defensive and attacking contributions:
*Appearances are all similar*

TACKLE EFFICIENCY:
8. Leeming - 88.80%
7) McIlorum - 90.90%
6) Ackers - 91.69%
5) McShane - 92.09%
4) Hood - 92.76%
3) Powell - 93.28%
2) Houghton - 93.98%
1) Clark - 94.32%

TRIES AND ASSISTS COMBINED:
8. Powell - 5
7) Hood - 7
6) Houghton - 10
5) Ackers - 11
4) Clark - 12
3) McIlorum - 14
2) McShane - 15
1) Leeming - 16

AVERAGE RANK POSITION FROM BOTH STATS AREAS:
8. Powell - 5.5
7) Hood - 5.5
6) Ackers - 5.5
5) McIlorum - 5
4) Leeming - 4.5
3) Houghton - 4
2) McShane - 3.5
1) Clark - 2.5

Daryl Clark and Paul McShane are therefore the 2 best players for ratio between tackle efficiency and try + assist contributions. Personally I would have taken Leeming anyway, because of how many contributions he had in attack. And I would have taken Clark anyway as well because I genuinely think that Clark is the best of those 8 players.

I think we all knew that Wane was going to pick a lot of players he either worked with previously, or currently worked with at Wigan. If you look at Cooper, he’d had two average seasons and wasn’t quite up there with the other top SL props. There’s no way he would have been selected if he’d stayed at Warrington for the whole of 2022. Bateman was another, he’s been far below his best but still managed to get a look in.

Having said that, it was refreshing to see an England side that had a bit of zip about them, despite the unacceptable performance in the semi. The halves looked creative and the backs looked hungry for tries. If Clark rediscovers his mojo this year after a good pre-season, and on the back of some good prop work, he’ll tear it up. Wane would struggle to not pick an in-form Clark.

Does the inclusion of Wane's tried & tested highlight the lack of emerging quality in the game or just a reluctance to try something new by bringing enthusiastic youngsters into his set up? Perhaps he is blinkered to the youth of tomorrow.

The English ladies team was doing well till half time last night . In the 2nd half NZ went up a gear & pushed us back with massive open field breaks that meant England were starting sets near their own line. A bit like watching the Wire.

I'm afraid it was always going to happen. We need to find some bigger & stronger girls to match the two or three really strong girls that NZ had. They crunched us a bit. Bit like watching a lightweight v heavyweight boxing match. We are way off matching 'em. Mind you you couldn't fault our effort and commitment. Mele Hufanga https://www.nrl.com/players/womens-rugb ... e-hufanga/

I'm afraid it was always going to happen. We need to find some bigger & stronger girls to match the two or three really strong girls that NZ had. They crunched us a bit. Bit like watching a lightweight v heavyweight boxing match. We are way off matching 'em. Mind you you couldn't fault our effort and commitment. Mele Hufanga https://www.nrl.com/players/womens-rugb ... e-hufanga/

I stand corrected! Can’t argue with that, thanks.

I must admit, with the naked eye I’ve always admired McIllorum for his defence, but the stats don’t lie!

While there may not be crunching defensive displays, these women's teams certainly have great handling & passing skills.
I think the Wire would have struggled against the Jillaroos today.

Tadesco's second try was wonderfully crafted.

The Aussie men were just playing basic rugby very well . No panicking ,just do the basics then find a gap with a pinpoint pass to the appropriate runner & backing up the ball carrier with nearly every move.

Just wondering whether Latrell Mitchell is related to Sean O’Loughlin as he managed to play the ball 5 metres ahead of where he was tackled most of the time

My final tickets were caught up in this mess https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/reports- ... ute-62560/ so I didn't go. If England has made the final I would have been quite cross, as it was I was saved a damp quib.

My final tickets were caught up in this mess https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/reports- ... ute-62560/ so I didn't go. If England has made the final I would have been quite cross, as it was I was saved a damp quib.

Thug out.