What more do I want from a prop?

The ability to run the ball in when we are under pressure in our own 10 and make an impact/break in the defensive line with a thundering run rousing the crowd and raising the intensity. Be able to put such a hit in that the opposing player goes backwards, makes and error and spills the ball, looks like they have been hit by a train. The type of forward you don't mess with. You know a bit like a Graham, Morley or Burgess. I admit I am setting my standards quite high here but you did ask.

I am not whinging about scoring points, I am passing comment on the ability of our props as a collective unit to make yardage/meters. The stats clearly show how much we are reliant on Hill and yes we do miss Dodds. The Hull pack will dominate us again at Wembley and it's why we will not win an attritional GF in October.

Quote ="Paul Youane"If people find the game duller now why do we average 10,000 per game against the circa 5,000 in your halcyon period?'" IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html

Quote ="Paul Youane"If people find the game duller now why do we average 10,000 per game against the circa 5,000 in your halcyon period?'" IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html

Warrington

2015: 9,516

2016: 12,258 – Up 2,742

In all honesty we don't really know how good Dodds is in a Wire shirt so i think it is erroneous to say we have missed him.

Just think if Roy had spent 2 years in his sick bed we could have salivated how good we would have been had he played.

Quote ="Wires71"IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html'" The Thursday night fixtures are very unpopular with all team`s fans. This will be a contributory factor in attendance reduction, since our "Friends" from Sky imposed this on Super League.

Quote ="Wires71"IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html'" The Thursday night fixtures are very unpopular with all team`s fans. This will be a contributory factor in attendance reduction, since our "Friends" from Sky imposed this on Super League.

Quote ="Wires71"IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html'" You've conveniently not accounted for 2014 which saw a rise of circa 15% against which this year's drop of 0.52% is measured (although calculated in April so not including the Hull derbyshire at the KC, hence Hull average dropping by 2,342, and Wigan/Saints at the DW which between them would more than wipe out the marginal reported fall). As for Super League not being as exciting it certainly is more exciting and of a greater quality than the rugby on show in the 80s and 90s once the halcyon tinted glasses are removed. Sources: my own eyes

Quote ="Wires71"IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html'" You've conveniently not accounted for 2014 which saw a rise of circa 15% against which this year's drop of 0.52% is measured (although calculated in April so not including the Hull derbyshire at the KC, hence Hull average dropping by 2,342, and Wigan/Saints at the DW which between them would more than wipe out the marginal reported fall). As for Super League not being as exciting it certainly is more exciting and of a greater quality than the rugby on show in the 80s and 90s once the halcyon tinted glasses are removed. Sources: my own eyes

Nothing is ever good enough for our fans. You wouldn't think that we're still in the mix for the Treble, in the CC final in two weeks time and a point behind top spot. No, we have to be bursting lines on every set and scoring off of every pass.

Everyone bangs on about 2011 and putting 80 points on teams every week. Well you know what? I thought 2011 was boring. Sure the first few weeks it was alright but after that? Nah. not for me. I want to watch a game of rugby league, not a one sided blow out cricket score. Ultimately yes I want us to win every game and yes I get frustrated when we throw a game away, but that's what it is... A GAME. Even if you had Sam Burgess, Morley, Carvell, Westwood, Hill, Taylor, Ellis and whoever else as you're starting pack and bench you wouldn't be getting players bursting a line from taking a ball up in you're own 10.

Some people want the impossible from the players. They're only human, they don't spill balls or fall off tackles on purpose. Thank yourselves lucky you're not a Huddersfield, KR, Salford or Leeds fan (for this season at least anyway).

I've taken the facts as reported and listed the sources. I could not find any later statistics than April 2016 online.
We can agree to disagree on the excitement levels and SL quality of 2016.

You have made the mistake of widening a single critique of pack go-forward backed up by the widely accepted SL Stats into a make believe wide ranging criticism of all things Warrington RLFC which you subsequently defend with fervour. I have not made such criticism nor have I mentioned 2011. I don't want the impossible at all, I just made an observation on Sims and his average gain, which is still undeniable.

I accept we are having a better season than last and a season almost unimaginable back in 2002 but let's not get carried away, even the most pious Wire fan will concede privately there are some significant shortcomings we need to address to even contemplate a treble (having a quality, settled 3/4 line for one which includes playing wingers)

That's very true. I should have made clear we miss a quality prop interchange forward which Dodds had the billing of. I dare not voice a criticism over Asotasi as someone will no doubt point out how he was a mis-understood, hardworking man-mountain who did all the little things and that I should stick to celebrating tries with my oversized foam hand and "T-R-Y" placard.

Not sure where you get the 2016 numbers from BW, but according to my data;

11,037
10,631
13,678
15,008
10,940
9,024
10,370
10,513
9,259
11,724
9,829
122,013 Total
11,092 Average

So yes, they are up but we are not averaging over 12k species I believe.

Quote ="Winslade's Offload"Not sure where you get the 2016 numbers from BW, but according to my data; 11,037 10,631 13,678 15,008 10,940 9,024 10,370 10,513 9,259 11,724 9,829 122,013 Total 11,092 Average So yes, they are up but we are not averaging over 12k species I believe.'" www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/

Quote ="Winslade's Offload"Not sure where you get the 2016 numbers from BW, but according to my data; 11,037 10,631 13,678 15,008 10,940 9,024 10,370 10,513 9,259 11,724 9,829 122,013 Total 11,092 Average So yes, they are up but we are not averaging over 12k species I believe.'" www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/

This thread has become like Super League itself, not as good as when it first started, and obsessed with statistics..

Come on fellas, bickering over prop's metres per drive average is as dull as our constant scooting tactics.
Scooting is OK, but in moderation. Smith and Agar seem obsessed by it. We have one of the world's great No 7's in our ranks, yet he doesn't (to me) get his hands on the ball enough. Add to this, a rampaging No. 11, who's seen less balls than Anne Widdecombe, in the last few weeks. We've become dull. There, I've said it. dull, dull, dull, mind-numbingly dull. I don't want win at all costs, robotic rugby. I WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED. If that means losing games, and unfortunately a final, so be it. I don't want the Wigan attitude of "b0ll0cks to the fans, just make sure we get the two points/trophy".

Unfortunately, today's fan has morphed into a Top Trumps bore, who can recite which particular player had most runs from dummy half/metres gained/hit ups. Give me an Andy Gregory pass to Mark Roberts, a Kevin Penny special, a dust up between Boyd and Sorenson, Michael Shenton gliding across a pitch, a Phil Blake chip and chase......THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT. not Russell running from acting half, instead of doing what a winger is supposed to do....beat men and score tries.

I blame Phil Larder.

I am afraid that data was compiled back in April 2016 and benefitted from that big 15k crowd when we played Widnes and all their fans were a bit giddy from their high placing in SL. Since then attendances have slipped back a bit.

Me and you are definitely on the same page here

Thank God for lefty on this. He is right. Someone earlier in the thread even suggested Martin Offiah wouldn't be picked now as he wouldn't be able to smash it up from dummy half (I hope he wasn't being serious). I watched Alex Murphy (and honestly) something seemed to happen every time he touched the ball ... I wonder what his stats were??

Lefty goldblatt..... the voice of reason


Seriously, we have talent, but we're just not using it. It's just metres, metres, metres. Why are we persisting in playing a loose forward, as an auxiliary prop? DULL. I want a LF to be on the fringes, looking for opportunities, not playing crash bang wallop rugby. Oh, hang on, the Aussies do it. Pish. I got one of those sticks recently, which enables me to watch the NRL.....I didn't last long. My Saturday morning insomnia was immediately cured.

With my England head on, we (as a game) seem obsessed with the bore fest that is the NRL. It's all about yardage and stats. We copy, but we can't beat them. Will we ever? Come November, why not just fling the ball about. We've not won a recognised tournament (with the Aussies involved) since 1972 FFS. They'll be laughing into their Foster's should we try and copy them.

Wingers > props metres gained > attendance.

FFS keep on topic!

Perhaps the thread title needs to be changed to Whingers?

THIS ^^^

Is it possible that Cooper will play second row, with maybe Currie moving to the centres?

I don't think so ZZ. Coops is an out and out prop and we need him to make the hard yards alongside Hill. It will be interesting to see who TS puts on the bench next year, but surely Coops and Hill will start for us. That leaves Dodds, Cox, Bailey, Simms and Westwood as the bench replacements - surely too many for the squad to sustain so I would think somebody will have to go.

But we also have an emerging backrower in Jullien. If he kicks on in the off season then who knows, perhaps Currie might well switch. Personally I would like to see Jullien feature in a lot more games next year, he seems to have a good rugby brain and can cover BR and Centre.

Isn't Dodds on just a 12 month contract?

It's also worth noting that Sims played better as a second row than prop in NRL. Our problem is that we have an athletic and mobile back row in Currie, Hughes and Westerman who more often than not play the full 80. Prop seems to be the only position Sims can be guaranteed a game.

He's looked a handful whenever he's played. Centre could well end up his position. He's fast, got a good pair of hands and can put a shot on. he's definitely got the right build for a centre.