I accept other points of view, i told Dave T "Good point well made" that seems to me that i accepted his opinion.

You didn't.

You agreed with his point, then showed yourself up again by banging on about how King had been a revelation for Melbourne on the wing, and how previous coaches were to blame for Kings form, as they'd played him out of position at centre.

Then, later in the thread, when picked up about Penny again, you go on about King, and how his poor form at centre has been because he's been covering for Kevin Penny, and that's why his decision making & positional play have left a lot to be desired.

You basically, don't like individuals, you make ti perfectly clear, and even when presented with pretty good points, resort to "Well, in my opinion, Kevin Penny is the weakest ...."

Kevin Penny has not played for Warrington Wolves in a side that has had a solid defensive structure, that he could become part of. The problems that Penny encountered, Matt King encountered against Catalans at home. They scored a try that floated over & past him and he looked the preverbial idiot torn between staying out wide, or closing the space inside him. If Smith fixes this problem, and the line stays spread out, 99% of Pennys problems will go away. His only dangers will be the same as any other SL winger, bombs, grubbers in behind, marking your opposite number etc, which I think he's shown his capable of, and has plenty of room for improvement in equal measure.

A lot of this stuff you have made up but well done anyway, a forum is all about opinions, everyone has them and everyone is entitled to them, sometimes people agree sometimes they don't, it's a way of life.

Can you give an opinion as to why Penny's defence is below average playing in the reserves

No I haven't.

You do that stuff little SJM, not me.

Exhibit A



Exhibit B



Where's the lies.

get a room guys

You said i was banging on about Matt king playing for Melbourne on the wing, i mentioned it once and apologised when i got it wrong. I have no problem with anybody on this forum, i done know 80% of people on here, i just don't agree with some opinion and i respect some people more than others (Rugby related) but again that's just a way of life.

Why is it the two times I have seen him play in the reserves, his defence hasn't been below average? The other two games; we trounced Wakefield and had a close win against Harlequins.

You need to accept you are talking biased e.

If a player or anybody deserves credit then fair is fair he deserves it but from what i have seen of the reserve games, Penny's defence wasn't the best.

No, because it isn't.

There is no problem with his defence, he can tackle well. How many tries have you seen for the reserves where folk have run through/over/around him ?

The only problems Kevin Penny has had to date have been where he is stood, he must be partly blamed for constantly getting caught off his wing, but in equal measure he hasn't been supported by a dtrong structure and I've given you an example of when the same happened to Matt King. The way we set up with an 'in to out' look, asked for this to happen. The three defenders inside him didn't slide, and he was exposed, and sometimes he didn't help himself. This 'defence' thing is a myth, he's not been run over the top of time & time again, he's held his own many times face up, it's when he can't see his opponent, that's been the worry.

would anyone trust him at fulback, seriously if the answer is no then there must be some doubt to either his catching/positioning or tackling.

Very good point indeed (not being sarcastic) i also accept that teams don't focus on the left wing anymore because Penny doesn't play there and that maybe the reason for no tries being scored there in the last 2 games.

He played Full-back a few times for the reserves but i wouldn't be confidant.

forget what all of us on the forum think of Penny myself included

ask yourself this why is it that the opposition are targeting him?

i suspect they are following their coaches orders and ask yourself this

Why would coaches instruct their players to target his wing ?

They don't. (didn't)

Our left hand side was targetted, traffic through Monaghan, runners run through King, Anderson sucked in etc. Teams would play a couple of plays around the posts, knowing that our left edge would pull in, then would go back to that edge and find Penny iscolated and would prey on him making the wrong decision, or not the right decision say.

Teams don't target Penny, nobody runs through him, consistently anyhow, they may have bumped him off 5m out etc, the point i'm making is, the left hand side defence is the target, not Penny. Teams targetted the sapce around Penny, inside & out, not the individual, he was one of three or four blokes that were targetted, it was their 'zone'. When he was new, teams kicked to him, he used to get driven back in the tackle, he doesn't anymore, he's stronger, knows how to use his body. He's good in the air, both attacking & defensively.

You get Penny confident, and a structure that helps him, and he helps himself by working hard, listening, getting himself in the right positions etc, you'll soon see teams stay away from that left hand side, as it'll be a dangerous play.

jwp you should be his PR man
listening to that make me want to sing Jeresulum and start quoting Churchill
Benefit of the doubt it is then

but i do concede he is young and when he 'matures' i think he'll be a real threat just not this season

Some drunken Toffee nosed Tory Twaddle?

thing is though, people and posters have been putting forward sensible accurate responses like that for ages, however sticks and it's much easier for nobbers(not you, them) to accept that "he's and can't tackle" a myth thats perpetuated by some wire fans and lots of away fans.

Look mate, I've criticised him on here before. I don't think there's a Halo circling his head or anything, I just think he's an easy target that's all, and from folk who should have his back, us lot.

Many of us, churn out the whole 'If they show pride in the shirt, I don't mind' line from time to time, well there's nobody I see more proud than him every time he steps out for us, so if there's a player that deserves a bit of time to develop, for me it's him. Whwn you look at his story, picked up at 14/15 having barely touched a ball, it's only natural that he has flaws in his game, but there's a desire in him that you see, a will to win, and some talent, and that's why I'll stick up for him. To pin the teams downfalls on his slight shoulders, I think is very wrong.

The left edge COLLECTIVELY has been a basket case since the second quarter of last season.

What? I also wouldn't trust Gleeson, King, Johnson, Monaghan etc at fb, so can we say the same about all those players?

That really was a terrible argument.

wing fullback centre are/should be all interchangeable postions imo

personally though attributes for FB should be speed, awareness, cool under pressure, and bravery

gleeson and king are slow and johnson ain't much quicker considering he's a winger. but if they were put there they would do a competent job

poor argument ? maybe but i prefer discussion

I wouldn't call him pacy, but he certainly isn't slow.

Centres and Fullbacks are pretty specialised. To an extent a winger can play at fullback and occasionally in the centres but you watch someone like Hunt, Webb, Slater, Stewart or Hodges, Inglis (for QL/Aus), Gasnier or Cooper and how they join an attacking line or bring someone on, I wouldn't say most wingers could play those positions.
But I take your point about Penny as a last line of defence.
My personal opinion is his tackling is shoddy, i've seen nothing to change that however no, he wasn't solely responsible for the way in which our left hand side leaked like a bottomless cup

I'd Have Paid some Serious Money to Watch Lesley Vainakolo Play full back.........

one of the best wingers in the superleague era........theres not a chance he would have been picked there...

in fact he himself has been targeted in defence... he was hopeless(well not very good) under the high ball and many times he would be put under pressure ......however I do remember him collecting a bomb on his own line and going the full length.........

Some outdated views of a FB here. I think the FB should now be more akin to a supplementary half-back and uses the freedom of the position to act as an additional pivot. The top top teams in SL have FBs who can fulfil this role.