soz but graham this year does not seem to be making the yardage he did last year,puleatua looked far stronger in the carry against hudds and before you say that you see graham every week,so do the rest of us as you are the only team on sky more than us!
plus he is unsucessfully trying to dye that ginger nut blond,oh and he's been coming out of the defensive line wrongly a lot lately.

Just like he did for Hudds last try on Sunday, Hodgson scooted through the gap and you could see the look on the big duffers face and hear the "DOH" in Leigh

Morley - If we get into play offs.
N. Brown or B. Hodgson if we don't

Was going to say Adrian Vowles in 99 but I think Cas actually got all the way to the semis that year?

Graham's yardage has actually improved from last year, and he has made 300 more metres than last year, in three less games so far.

His average carry brings 7.2m as opposed to 7.1m last year.

That said, I do agree about some of his defence. I also feel he likes to play with the ball too much, and I'd prefer to have the likes of Carvell, Morley and Peacock, who are classic prop forwards.

Morleys a good chance of Man of Steel and he's also a good chance of the Lance Todd. I can see him having a big game at Wembley.

Him and Crabtree have had some classic 'battles' over recent years. Fingers crossed it's Moz's day at Wembley

Love how peacock hasn't got a mention!! He has Been awesome as always!! And his league stats are much better than moz!! moz has played a few less games but is well behind in meters and tackles!! Even his cc games wouldn't make up the difference www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009

Love how peacock hasn't got a mention!! He has Been awesome as always!! And his league stats are much better than moz!! moz has played a few less games but is well behind in meters and tackles!! Even his cc games wouldn't make up the difference www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009

Brett Hodgson's a shoe in

I remember a couple of years ago at the Galpharm when all the talk had been about how Crabtree had destroyed us at the HJ in the prvious game. When Crabtree came off the bench Morley immediately went looking for him and destroyed him with a massive hit. Eorl went off after less than a minute and didn't return.

Firstly i think Morley will win MOS especially if Wire win the cup and have a good run in the play-offs.

However, Graham is the best prop forward in the league by an absolute mile.

Why would you prefer Carvell, Morley or Peacock when Graham passes the ball [iand[/i makes a hell of a lot more yards than any of them as a clasic prop forward?

Anyway for comparison here are the key stats for them all.

Yards.
Graham- 4049
Peacock- 3135
Morley- 2673
Carvell- 2280

Tries.
Graham- 6
Peacock- 4
Carvell- 3
Morley- 1

Carries.
Graham- 562
Peacock- 433
Morley- 329
Carvell- 273


Offloads.
Graham- 23
Carvell- 22
Peacock- 19
Morley- 12

Tackle Busts.
Graham- 50
Peacock- 40
Morley- 29
Carvell- 20

Defensive

Tackles.
Peacock- 660
Graham- 511
Morley- 419
Carvell- 380

Missed Tackles.
Morley- 44
Carvell- 41
Peacock- 27
Graham- 22

Errors.
Graham- 14
Carvell- 10
Peacock- 9
Morley- 8

Penalties.
Peacock- 14
Carvell- 12
Morley- 11
Graham- 6

You are correct. If the MOS is given to a forward it would be impossible to overlook Graham who has been outstanding this season.

I think Hodgson may win it he;s been great this seaso..

Good shout

But he does play 65 minutes per game ... Thats why his stats are so high ..

If this is correct then the 65 minute achievement only further strengthens his case.

Isn't that a positive?

It depends how you interpret the stats. Graham has made more metres, but has also played more games due to injuries. His metres per carry are the lowest of all four props, with Morley and Carvell averaging a metre more than Peacock and Graham on every single hit-up.

Graham's a good prop in a dominant team and gets the opportunity to play at the line due to the amount of attacking St Helens do.
Morley is also a good prop but has probably had to make more hard yards coming out of his own half given the relative performances of the two teams.

On form, I'd never pick anyone above Morley as he has the extra inspirational quality in a way that Graham can never have until he has performed in the biggest stages.

Lining up alongside Morley you know you are playing with someone who was dominant in the NRL against the best of the best and is widely respected by everyone in the game. If you asked Gus Gould etc what he thought of James Graham the answer would be not much, as when Graham went to the world cup he was invisible.

Whoever is the best, its not by much, there's some top forwards around



Because Morley's the most legendary forward of his generation.

Carvell is in with a shout of winning MoS. He has been massive for us this year.

IMO Morleys improved performances are due to the presence of Carvell. Last year Morley was getting hammered by the opposition but now Carvell has taken some of the hammer.

I really hope we sign another beefy prop for next year, our frontrow will be the best in SL.

Graham doesn't make more yards. He makes less yards per carry than most of the big props.

The difference is that Saints have no rotation in the front row, meaning that he plays for a hell of a lot longer than any other prop in the league, hence being top.

The accurate measure for metre making is metres per carry:

Graham - 4049m - 562 carries - 7.20 per carry
Peacock - 3135m - 433 carries - 7.24 per carry
Morley - 2673m - 329 carries - 8.12 per carry
Clough - 2651m - 319 carries - 8.31 per carry
Mason - 2579m - 328 carries - 7.86 per carry
Lynch - 2555m - 368 carries - 6.94 per carry
Burgess - 2423m - 348 carries - 6.96 per carry
Carvell - 2280m - 273 carries - 8.35 per carry
Crabtree - 1748m - 205 carries - 8.53 per carry

There is no doubting that Graham is a class player, but people look at the total metres made stat, and it doesn't tell the full story. There are 6 props in the above list (a sample of the best in the league) who make more yards per carry. I want a prop to take the ball up and make the hard yards, not fanny around thinking they are a scrum half.

As you can see Clough makes some great metres per carry, and he probably benefits from being spelled, whereas Graham is being asked to do too much by his team. IMO he would be a more effective prop forward if he was spelled.

Saying that, in 2007, when he was way down the metres made and carries list, his metres per carry was still around 7.27m. The fact is, he isn't the best metre making prop, not by a long way.

EDIT: In the past few years we have seen Terry O'Connor, Jamie Thackray, Danny Nutley sit around the top of the metre-making list, were the Saints fans singing their praises then?

That makes it even better surley

In one way it does, but then it doesn't automatically make him a better player than the likes of Morley and Carvell just because Wire effectively rotate their props.

I made this observation recently, based on no facts, as it is impossible to get the stats.

If Graham played 80 mins, and made 200m and 30 tackles, his stats would look outstanding. However, Wire could use Morley and Paul Wood and between them get 250m and 35 tackles, meaning that whilst Graham may have good individual stats, they are achieved by default, and could actually be less effective than a team with two props.

Jammer, Moz, Carvell, all worthy of the gong pal, all of em. Jammer deserves it for playing 1000 games in 12 months and being from "the pool"

Ha ha, surely that's reason to keep it well away from him!!!

TBH, I have no major issues with him getting it (only Morley for us is in with a chance), I just get frustrated when people come on and quote the metres made stat as justification, when it doesn't tll the full picture.

Graham is immense for Saints, Morley is immense for Wire. Morley has been instrumental in taking a team of under-achievers through a tough quarter final, and then a massive semi-final. Morley could easily get it.

Could well do indeed and the whole of SL would applaud the chap, after a shaky start at the wire, and being a balloon head in that first year he has become much more mature and a destroyer of men, the captain knock was a bonus and sure made him wake up and front up ... Kev Penny young player of the year to maybe