Here is another player that needs the sack, absolute liability, poor positional play, poor defense and is fast declining in attack, teams week in week out are going to get success from attacking Penny's wing and should be dropped as soon as Gleeson is fit.

I demand segregation.

Actually, the only problem with Penny is that he needs basic skills coaching to him...he has all the natural attributes to be a great.

His main flaw for me, is that in attack he makes the bizarre mistake of constantly over-running his centre, thus he's collecting the ball, either stood still, or reaching behind himself.

Surely a basic word in the ear in training could sort this?

Your being silly here, you've got your own agenda, but it's a skewed perception. He's being hung out to dry, and as 19 year old homegrown kid, that's not fair.

So who do we blame for Penny, the coach?

I thought Stevo's criticism of him last night when he dropped the pass from King was very harsh. King made an absolute mess of that half chance. Penny didn't have a clue where King was going (I don't think King did either). In the end Penny was too close to King, and the pass shouldn't have gone.

Simpler play from King was in order, draw your man and just give it. Get back to basics in the short term for him I think.

Penny still has a lot to learn about the game and unfortuantley doesn't seem to show that he is learning.
When Riley started to break into the team his talents were there to see but parts of his game were very weak. Look how he's improved!
Would sending Penny out on loan to a national league club help? Super league seems to be a step above him at the moment and maybe playing at a lower level may help improve his game.

Did you actually go to the game







On the whole thought he had a quiet game but he was not the defensive liability that some people seem to think. If any try is scored on his side of the field people blame him.



I had one guy behind me blame him when King got showed up..... tool.

Penny is learning a lot. If you watch, rather than criticise, you'd see that. Sure, he makes mistakes but he's definitely learning.

The defence on that side of the field is poor in general - it's not purely down to Penny though, our line just does not slide for some reason which leaves players either isolated if they have done their job properly and expected their inside man to do the same, or leaves huge overlaps if they don't move because their inside man didn't. The fact saints continued to find room and success down that side of the field after Penny was subbed is testament to this.

Give the guy a break.

guess the same applies to all the team then

Nobody needs to be blamed for Penny, that's the point, the lad is doing nothing wrong. If you check your footage from last night, his positioning in the main was fine, it's his 'teammates' inside of him that are letting him down.

People are churning rubbish out, and were at the game last night, things like "That's three tries now down Pennys wing", No, no it isn't, It's three tries down the centres channel whilst Penny was in a decent position to make a tackle on his winger.

When he took Penny off, we were losing 16-14 and frankly, the only way I could see us scoring was Briers booming it downfield and him chasing it, as we couldn't get out of our forty with ball in hand.

No the forward were awesome, Riley and Hicks did nothing wrong.

The worrying thing JWP, is that it looks like Lowes is one of the Penny haters too!

Did he take Hicks or Johnson off when they got shown up by a 2nd rower and a kid? No. Did he take King off when he got stood up, no. Why on earth did he drag Penny off?

He did take Johnson off ace.

While i agree penny isn't a good defender he can't be blamed for any of last nights tries and doesn't deserve criticism for last night's performance.

How do you honestly come to this conclusion, on numerous occasions (3 or 4)
Penny was a good 10-15 yards from his wing man meaning he had to put his foot down to cover him and on 2 of those occasions they scored.

He took Johnson of for Bridge when he got pasted by Gilmour.

If you can get hold of Saints highlights DVD's from the last two years, you will see Gidley doing this to all teams in SL. Saints work the ball well, and get the ball out in a two on two situation. Gidley will inevitably score.

I suppose the only way you can defend this is to hit Gidley as he is taking the ball, but the way Saints move it, that is nigh on impossible.

When all said and done Penny is not at the standard of a Super League player (yet) and should be replaced as soon as Gleeson is fit, until we do try's will always constantly be scored on his side, weather you blame him, King or Lowes he needs to be dropped.

Your wrong, your looking at it too blinkered.

Personally I'm not that bothered whether he gets dropped or not. I like him, I like his enthusiasm, and think he is one of themost exciting players around. But, based on last night, I'm not sure he will ever get the ball out wide anyway, so maybe we are just wasting him.

My issue with the above though, is that even if we have Reardon, or Riley in that position, teams will still score against us down that flank, as the problem is not just Kevin Penny.

The inexperienced guy on the wing is in all cases too easy to blame for poor defence out wide. If Penny is 10-15 metres away from King in the line when the ball has been flung out says to me that King didn't slide across like he should have done.

Let me put it another way, if Penny were 'correctly' positioned in relation to King, then there would be a huge overlap out wide and Gardner would be in for an easy score - and I confidently predict that people on this site would blame that on Penny for not sliding out.

your being way to kind

Why? out of Penny and King, King offers most.