So the grand final is once again Leeds v Saints, if the salary cap was supposed to even the playing field it hasn’t worked.
Clearly the only defining measure that keeps Super League continuing to get the same results is the strength of the academies.
The strongest academies always produce the grand finalists, capping spending on players has no affect.
Is it time for a new look at how the best youngsters are scooped up by the biggest teams?

No, it’s time our academy caught up with Wigan, Saints & Leeds which hopefully we are finally seeing some positive signs on.

The salary cap only affects the first team playing squad and the biggest teams employ more coaches and generally have more money to invest in their academies, so are able to scoop up the best young talent?

With that in mind, as Wire fans, shouldn't we be asking why after 20 years of being one of the strongest clubs financially in the league, why we have struggled so much to match the Wigan/Saints/Leeds academy systems?.. Surely, it should just be a case of setting up an identikit arrangement similar to anyone of those 3 club's set-ups and then reap the rewards of doing so?... Have we simply not employed the right people, or have the people at the top totally underplayed the importance of producing homegrown talent?

Also, as a bit of an extra, and with salary cap being mentioned here, one of my main questions and it's one that leaves me baffled, is why, as a competition as a whole, the salary cap has stagnated for so long, especially now in a time when actual economic inflation is skyrocketing?... If you view the playing squads as an 'employee', then it's fair to say that their wage structure as been awfully abused and the actual job of a RL professional isn't exactly an attractive one to want to either become, or stay employed as?

Saints and Leeds haven't contested a grand final for over a decade. Also, out of the 12 current super league clubs, 9 have appeared in a grand final.

It's the job of everyone else to catch up.

Personally, I'm fed up of us whipping out the cheque book to sign overrated marquee players, has-been overseas stiffs, best mates, experiments, never will bes and never-weres.

We've tried that approach and failed. The answer for us is to produce quality youngsters [iand give them an environment and pathway to the first team and beyond [/i

Since 2017 you've seen Wires, Catalan, Salford and Castleford make it to the GF, together with Leeds, Wigan & Saints (and it's been over 10 yrs since Leeds last played Saints in a GF) - so I can't actually see the problem with 'same old teams', apart from who walks away with the trophy.

Easier said than done though?.. We have been on a financial par with Leeds/Saints/Wigan for the last 20 years, but we have come nowhere near producing same number of quality youngsters as they have.

Are we to believe that we simply haven't been bothered to produce SL quality youngsters like those other 3 clubs have, instead preferring a short cut via signing players from other clubs, or have we simply not got the brains at the club to set up the correct structure to produce the players we need?

The salary cap was brought in to stop teams over spending and going bust not to even up the league.

Spot on.
We're obsessed with chequebook signings.

To be fair, the club DO give chances to the youngsters, but, if they don't "hit the ground running", they tend to be jettisoned. I've said for years, academy lads who are progressing, must be crestfallen when we sign yet another NRL player, solely to fill quota spots.

How many of our underused academy players have been released by the club and gone onto being what you would class as good SL players, Lefty?... I don't see any instances where we have released any and had any regrets from what they then achieved after leaving?

I think it's more to do with us not signing the quality youngsters, rather than them not getting a chance?

Since the last Saints V Leeds final, the following teams have been in a Grand Final:

Saints, Leeds, Wigan, Wires, Cas, Salford, Catalan.

In addition to that, the following teams have won the LLS:

Saints, Leeds, Wires, Huddersfield, Catalan.

The following have won the Challenge Cup:

Saints, Leeds, Wigan, Wires, Hull, Catalan.

The following have contested the Challenge Cup final:

Salford, Cas, Hull KR, Huddersfield.

We've also seen Hull in the Grand Final in the past, and obviously Bradford's period of success all since the GF era started in 1998.

The last six Grand Finals have had six different runners up too!

There is absolutely no issue whatsoever with the "same old teams in the Grand Final". The issue solely lies with the same old teams WINNING the Grand Final. It's the job of the wide range of "close but no cigar" teams to find a way of changing that, and no club is more culpable of failing to do that than us.

Where they move to is one point and a very valid one at that, but it's not the only factor. If you've got lads who have been together for 10-15 years, there's a culture and a pride there to wear the shirt. There's countless Wigan players who have left that system after winning silverware and go on to do nothing. Case in point, Partington, him and smithies were 18 I think and bullied our pack a few years ago, he's now off to Salford.

Yes they have to be at a level, but the psychology of playing with your "brothers" is different to that if playing with some 31 year old kiwi.

Slightly rhetorical question but, has the current pack performed better than a pack that could've had Cooper, Philbin, G.King, Livett & Currie.

Is Bullock ripping up the trees that King wasn't and is Livett a poor mans Olli holmes?

Has Roberts, Austin, Sandow, Widdop, Williams done better than Gaz O'B would've done alongside either one if them?

It's all hindsight this, I do get that. But i don't think Mr C Sandow gave two flying eroos about Warrington, whereas, maybe, because he came through the system, G O'b would, stood next to lads he's grown up with

Well I would rather have Cooper here next season, who actually understands the P&B, than some big name Aussie on an executive salary who is only here to top up his pension and will be homesick the moment there's a spot of rain.

#KissKamOut then?

Re youth and catchment.

If you were a top young prospect from Burtonwood, Penketh, Leigh or wherever and had opportunities at Saints, Wigan and Warrington presented to you - would you choose Warrington?

Back on the point of the Grand Final, why do Wire fans call Saints the "bottlers"?

You could argue that we have "bottled it" in big games almost as much or even more than Saints have.

It's going to get even harder for us to attract the best local talent now. Leeds have appointed Peter farrell as their first nw based talent scout. We have definitely taken some big steps forward with the academy but we need to keep going. Our academy competing with the big 3s academy is absolutely key to competing with them at first team level their academies mean they have much deeper squads than every other team.

In 27 years ONLY 4 teams have won super league .

As of 2022 -

St Helens (10),
Leeds Rhinos (icon_cool.gif,
Wigan Warriors (5),
Bradford Bulls (4).

I'd obviously like that stat to be five with us joining the list BUT is it in itself such a poor ratio?

It's comparable with the Premier League with ONLY seven winners in a similar time frame with many more teams going after top spot and that includes one off's Blackburn and Leicester.

I think our problem isn't that we have so few winners It’s more the quality of the product on the pitch across the board is the issue.

Our fan fan base is stagnant media interest is hit and miss at best and the sport is reliant the same punters to support a number of events.

I didn't attend yesterday first I've missed for a dozen years but would a Salford Huddersfield final garnered any more interest? I’m not so sure

I quite like the idea of this Band of Brothers routine and yes having a strong academy with a good hit rate of producing SL standard players from within with P&B coursing through their veins is worth striving for.

However. using hindsight and revisit our 2012 squad and tell me about all those players that couldn't give a monkeys.

That's the balance of squad I’d like to see here now and I didn't think any less or more of a player based on where they were from.

Effort and giving all for the cause and your team mates comes from within surely

In that same period, 12 different teams have won the NRL and that might become 13 next week.

Six different teams have lost the last six Grand Finals though. It definitely isn't the "same old teams in it" every year, it's just the same old teams winning it. The likes of Warrington with our above average budget and Hull with their above average support base are the clubs who should be changing that, but it isn't Saints', Leeds', or Wigan's responsibility to make it easier for us.

Dwindling crowds are down to a number of reasons, but the most successful clubs have the biggest fan bases. Leeds probably have the biggest fan base in Super League. Two "new" teams in the Grand Final, who don't have as big a support as Leeds or Saints, would be likely to attract a smaller crowd, not a bigger one.

Comparing to the NRL is pointless too. It's a far bigger game there than here. Even they don't get anywhere near the crowds of the AFL though. Over 100,000 at the MCG yesterday, and 90,000+ were there for a quarter final with only one Melbourne team in it two weeks ago.

I wasn't comparing crowds with the NRL. I was comparing the number of winners. I think there has only been one title retained in the NRL era. What makes it a much more open competition than Super League?