With an abundance of props, where do they all fit in? How do we play them? Who do we look to retain/release medium to long term?

I'll start the ball rolling with my initial thoughts (subject to change as I've not fully thought this through):

Vaughan/Bullock starting. Currie and Holmes SF. Mcguire LF.

Michaele first interchange, Kasiano second.

I would consider Philbin on the bench as general prop/second row/loose forward cover. He seems the most versatile out of the main group though Harrison, in time, looks to have some potential in filling this all rounder role.

Harrison and Nicholson to develop and put pressure on starters.

Dudson cover for prop injuries.



First question: it looks ike Bullock and Dudson are playing for the same shirt. If you had to select one, who would be your choice?

We do seem to have cornered the market in props. I suppose, one thing is for sure, it will be dead easy to lend out surplus props to other clubs as there usually is a general shortage. I would disagree with any thoughts of Philbin playing second row & he is likely to be missing for a fair chunk of the season.

Bullock is really trying hard. It's good to see.

Philbin, and I wish him well with his recovery, will find himself well down the pecking order when he returns.

I think if you split props into two styles, you can find a balance. Stable props, consistent and dependable. And those who a more of a battering ram. I think balancing the two is important.

For me, it makes sense to split Makaele and Kasiano up, neither have a good engine but but can have an impact. I’d add Philbin to this too.

The ‘stable’ props are Vaughan, Dudson and Harrison.

Bullock is somewhere in the middle.

A concern is Holmes. Nicholson has been preferred, even without a pre-season, so I think the plan would be Nicholson and Currie in the back row.

For that reason, I think it would be:
Vaughan, Clark, Mikaele
Currie Nicholson
McGuire

Subs: Walker, Kasiano, Dudson and the best of the rest. Likely to be Holmes, but I think Harrison is the best, until Philbin returns.

That leaves Bullock, Holmes, Longstaff and Harrison out for my preferred team.

Good point that about mixing the props. It would be great to have Michaele and Kasiano playing at the same time against a tiring pack, but as you say, it would imbalance things. If both were to play at the same time, we'd need other players to step up in the defensive role as their lack of mobility would be an issue.

Interesting view on the role of Nicholson ie that he'd be in front of Holmes. In some ways, this could be expected due to the reasons for him leaving Wigan and being unlikely to displace the current second rowers.

I wonder if the board over recruited props, believing that they wouldn't be able to snare their primary targets. I wonder whether Dudson was a fail safe for Vaughan. I'm wondering too whether they expected Bullock to improve so much.

Philbin with a descent pack around him is worth keeping imo. Let's hope he makes a full recovery.

I will give Powell some credit where Bullock is concerned. I always thought there was a ruddy good prop in there with Bullock, even when he was at Wigan, and it seems Powell is managing to find him. I know he's had a rollocking at one point (off-field matter) but seems to have responded well. He's still got a long way to go but he's been a bright spot in dark season.

The two "at risk" for me are Mulhearn and Philbin

When you look at the best foreards, as well as grunt they have football brains. They know when to riak an offload, they know the lines to hit and they can spot a weak, switched off defender. I don't see that in Mulhearn and Philbin personally.

Dudson I don't get - never rated him but as a squad.prop he'd better than we have, which is basically little.

Bullock is good for a starting 17 place for me, he's cutting out the errors and running with vigour - a rare success story.

For.me the 2023 pack loos like

Vaughan, Walker, Bullock,
Currie, Nicholson
McGuire

Clark, Harrison, Mikaele, Kasiano

The caveat to that ia Mikaele, who needs to have a big off season, improve his stamina and tighten up his defence - if not Dudson takes his jersey.

Still, competition for jerseys and strength in depth looks much better, for sure.

To add a bit of complication to this discussion. Do we go with the 80min hooker. For years Saints were able to do this because Roby could easily do 80 mins. Similar with Powell at Wigan. That provides the extra forward on the bench for rotation.
We dont have a Simon Grix type player next year that could drop in at hooker, SR, LF or even centre or stand off if needed.

I recall talk about Philbin being a starting prop in the build up to 2021 season but was never convinced. I would prefer if he played 13 rotating with McGuire.

Holmes will be back at second row and Nicholson will still get plenty of opportunity for game time and development.

So
Start with Vaughan and Bullock if he keeps improving.
Rotate with kassiano and Dudson keeping the french connection together.
SR of Currie and Holmes .
LF of McGuire and Philbin.

Mikeale and Harrison covering injuries and suspensions or the extra forward if we go with an 80min hooker.
With the size of the pack we might have to go with 4 forwards on the bench. IIRC Holmes ended up at centre last night when Wrench went off so he (or Currie) could allow cover if the backs need to shuffle round.

I know this is unfashionable on this forum but I do think Holmes needs to get some credit. In the last few weeks he has been a bit of a tackling machine. His versatility is useful too. I think he will still be a regular next season.

He had a very good game last night, and he was very industrious the week before - 63 tackles I think, problem was he missed two key ones in the build up to a Wigan try.

I'd rather have 35 tackles and zero missed, but fair play he was good V Toulouse. As was another perennial mystery, Jason Clark - in fact he was superb.

All comments above go to show that we're pretty well stocked for forwards next year, especially props, and there'll be some serious competition for places. I still think we lack a hole punching back rower but maybe new bigger props will put us on the front foot which will generate gaps for Currie etc. to fly through.

If I could wave a magic wand the main thing I'd want to add to our squad for 2023 would be an experienced half back to complement (and free up ) Williams. Someone who had a great in field kicking game and led the pack around the pitch. Doesn't need to be particularly pacy as we have plenty of pace elsewhere but a real midfield general. Not sure whether we have cap space or whether anyone suitable is available.

Hang on there I have watched that try. He missed tackles on Field and then French who were both jinking about in broken field. Methinks you are being much too critical.
Also if you make lots of tackles you are bound to miss more than someone who only makes a few.

The Magic Wand has already come up with a man called "Dufty" who looks a superb addition. If we'd have had him all season!

We are likely to be always 1-2 out with an injury or suspension and we will still have depth and competition.

A good blend of grunt and genuine off the bench impact.

I think it will be:

Vaughan Clark Dudson
Currie nicholson
Maguire

Mikaele
Kasiano
Holmes

Bullock will be first reserve and will probably get more games than one or 2 of the other 4 props covering injuries and suspensions. Philbin shouldn't be anywhere near the team until chance allows him an opportunity and then he will have to perform really well to keep the shirt, he's been well off this season.

He looks a great signing.

I'm really hoping that Powell will consider Bullock as one of our 4 props. Aside from his improvement and genuine threat, he has age on his side at 29 compared to our other front rows. He hasn't really featured that much at Wigan either so I'm hoping he'll have a little more gas in the tank.

Bullock will get plenty of opportunity either way, I think he seems to thrive on having to perform for his shirt if his form since being dropped is anything to go by, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as a starter given recent performance levels.

I think Bullock started as a winger. Just been watching Ryan Hall taking the ball up ... blimey!

Re: Holmes. If he’s not better than Nicholson now (and he’s not, according to Powell who for all but one week has preferred Nicholson to him) will he ever be?

Credit where it’s due, decent last night. But, if you’ve lost your spot to a kid who had only played one Super League game before joining us mid-season (feel free to correct me, could be more games) then I think your card is marked. Nicholson, with a pre-season and 10 games under his belt, will get better. Longstaff could even close the gap after 6/7 starts at Hull. I think there is work to do for Holmes to justify his spot.

WRT props it would be good to see the club focussing on identifying and developing some promising young British talent, similar to our friends up the A49.
Not easy apparently, but they must be out there somewhere and it would be good if they could be mentored by the very experienced props joining us next season.

Powell was asked about wether he thought we needed props for 2022.
He said no.

Good point in here. Maybe there is merit in looking for a specific prop coach for the club. While size plays a part, there is more to it. I know James Graham was doing this at St George until recently, so they do exist, maybe we as a club need to invest and use this across all areas, Reserves, Womens, Academy, Scholarship…

We already had under contract cooper, Philbin (both internationals) mulhern, doro and Butler, he released sita and hill and replaced with lower salary bullock and Harrison. I can see why he wanted to give everyone a chance to prove themselves to him, besides there wasn't much he could do about the players already under contract and really they're the ones he has had a big problem with. Cooper was our best prop but he could have been on big money having returned from the NRL?

Powell realised fairly quickly that he was wrong to say we don't need props, doro and butler were moved on quite early, Mulhern won't be renewed, again I agree with this, he is a player I quite like but he's not very mobile and there is definitely better out there. Cooper is the question mark atm, he's still a very good player and if he is alright for Wigan why not for Powell? Bullock is turning out alright after a spell on the naughty step, he went alright from the start for me but recent displays look like a different player. Him being wrong about not needing props is one of the main drivers for our poor season IMO, frustratingly. We have been saying we need props for a long time.

One of the biggest alarm bells at the minute for Powell is Kyle Amor, he wanted to come in and play rugby this season and he isn't. Powell brought him in and praised his professionalism but he isn't getting a look in. Powell just seems far too easy to fall out with. If he doesn't mellow and falls out with some of the incoming signings then he won't last long next season, we can't back him with more mid season changes surely. He has to be given the chance to get a tune out of them now though, a big reset is required and it can start now really, most of the players in the squad are here next season and are Powell signings time to start working on making a team out of them.

8. Dudson
9. Clark
10. Vaughan
11. Currie
12. Nicholson
13. Holmes

14. Walker
15. Maguire
16. Mikaele
17. Kasiano
18. Bullock
19. Harrison
20. Philbin

Dudson and Vaughan are a definate for 8 & 10. 13 seems to suit Holmes really well so i'd rotate him and Maguire, but i think Holmes will be at 12 next year again and maguire will be 13.
Danny Walker changed the pace of the game for the better and is a natural leader. I'd keep him on the bench to rotate with Clark.
Big bopper bench of Mikaele, Kasiano and bullock if Maguire does start and Holmes takes the 12, with Harrison, Nicolson and Philbin etc as back up and fatigue rotation.
I think Powell will go with the below squad (if we can keep Wardle).

1. Dufty
2. Wrench/thewlis
3. Mata'utia
4. Wardle
5. Ashton
6. Ratchford
7. Williams
8. Dudson
9. Clark
10. Vaughan
11. Currie
12. Holmes
13. Maguire

14. Walker
15. Mikaele
16. Kasiano
17. Bullock

I can't see Dufty playing in the halves as Powell said see's him as an out and out fullback. He's said Dudson is a perfect starting Prop and Vaughan is a straight up starting 10 every day of the week. I don't want Ratchford in the halves but unless we bring someone in i can't see him putting anyone else there off the top of my head.