At the end of last season, and for many seasons now it has been blatantly obvious the cracks this team has. Granted, Smith has made some decent signings but he has also made some howlers. There have also been top quality players up for grabs who we have missed out on.

Players off the top of my head that have moved around in recent seasons which are better options than the players we currently have in those positions (IMO) and were known to be looking elsewhere:

Hardaker (With Ratch to the halves)
Eden
Smith
Thornley
Parcell
Lui
Ben Jones Bishop
Walsh
Huby
Mamo (With Ratch into the halves)
Jones
Griffin
Connor
Ikahihifo


Can anyone think of any other names that would have added more quality?

Granted there are names above that are not individual superstars, however they a good solid players in their respective positions.

I'd love to see a team line up such as:

1) Hardaker
2) Lineham
3) Jones
4) Ratch
5) Eden

6) Patton
7) Smith

8 ) Hill
9) Parcell
10) Cooper
11) Currie
12) Hughes
13) Westerman

14) Clark
15) Ikahihifo
16) Crosby
17) Philbin

This board would have gone into meltdown if most of those names had been announced as signings.

T/s has got is players for 2018 all from aus which nobody else wants

Out of that list, Ikahihifo would be a good bench prop for us, he would have been a decent acquisition as he's the sort of prop we seem to be lacking, and probably didn't come over on mega bucks - issue could have been that he came over mid season, when we potentially were at full cap? (Junior Moors would have been ideal, Ta'ai would have been decent from Hudds too, but he signed a new deal with the giants.).

Parcell wouldn't get a start above Clark, and I think you would be paying him too much to be sitting him on the bench for 60 mins per week, Clark is too good not to play that gametime, and Parcell I would argue is too expensive to be sat on a bench twiddling his thumbs.

Smith, I wouldn't have gone near tbh, although I know you have him in ahead of Brown but he would have been as big a flop as Brown in my eyes. Our problem when recruiting half's is we give them no attacking structure to work with, so unless they are a 'Sandow' they're going to struggle.

Eden is a funny one, I think in this Wire team he would look absolutely awful, Cas make their wingers look very good, although he had been playing well individually too. He seems a confidence player, and this Wire team at present is not the place for him.

Hardaker would have been worth a punt in my eyes, regardless of his 'issues' Salary Cap may have been an issue there though. Worth remembering also that Bennett is preferring Ratch above Hardaker - I think both are good full backs.

Must have's for next year:

Big Prop who can make a real impact, doesn't have to be for big minutes as Hill, Cooper and Crosby and do a good shift.
Right Centre, We need a big signing here, one that gives our right edge real threat. I've always been happy with Atkins at left centre, as long as he was the second best centre in the side.
Half, a half, any half!

Gidley, Sims, Westwood, Evans, Penny, Dwyer (I presume) all to leave.

True, true.

Eden doing great in a team that's doing incredible. But we couldn't really call that.
Kelly would have been a far better signing than Brown, but considering how his career ended at hkr, wouldn't have been on radar..

When was the last time we signed an unknown quantity that turned out to half decent at best? All our recent signings have been gimmes whereas other teams are unearthing gems. If we have scouts they need sacking.

Benjamin Jullien?

I wouldn't trust Smith with anymore recruitment. He's basically plop at it

Absolutely spot on.

Out of that whole list we would have looked at Hardaker and said great player bad apple lets look for someone else.
Parcell has turned out to be a bit of a gem for Leeds but he couldn't get a game in the NRL, so he's one of those Lucky bag signings really.

The rest we wouldn't have considered and still shouldn't, no matter how dreadful we are. some of those players may win a Grand final ring while we about in the Qualifiers, but they are an ordinary bunch of players. And a not are barometer of quality.


we all know, Cas apart, the league is as poor as we've ever seen. Saints may start to add some quality to it towards the end of the season, but for us to be in the bottom four of a dreadful league is pitiful......

we've been in the lower reaches of the league before, this is nothing new, but we've been looking up at the likes of Andy Farrell, Paul Sculthorpe, Iestyn Harris, Kris Radlinski, Steve Renouf, Brett Dallas, Lesley Vainikolo, the list is a bit endless....

and we are suggesting Ben Jones Bishop and Robert ing Lui are the answer to our problems ....

the lord on a bike............ these dark days get darker....

A few spring to mind.

Sid Domic - as a player and club man
Brent Grose
Darren Burns?
Graham Appo (first season)
Chris Hicks (outstanding winger)
Jullien as mentioned

Struggling to remember any more since, that is not to say that there are no more.

Does jullien count under a youth project signing? Im talking first team ready at the point of signing...like fonua, minikin, solomona, the second row for cas that i cant spell etc. All the others are pre-smith....which is my point.

Aye maybe Julien does.

It's a right mixed bag when we look at the TS signings. I've put in bold those signings I would class as a resounding success based on positive impact and value for money. Was all going so well until 2013.


2010 - Solomona, Atkins, Myler

2011 - Hodgson, Monaghan, Hellewell.

2012 - Hill, Ratch, Waterhouse

2013 - none

2014 - Russell, Asotasi, England, Penny

2015 - Clarke, Sims, Wheeler

2016 - Sandow, Julien, Westerman, Gids, Lineham, Hughes, Dodds, Cox, Bailey,

2017 - Brown, Cooper, Blythe, Crosby, Savellio,

Eden would have been a fantastic signing for us if we could have brought in Shenton and that big Jesse bloke, without them he would have been as bad as Russell.

Ben jones Bishop is scoring acrobatic tries for fun. Lui is putting players left right and centre at Salford and scoring them himself.

You say they are ordinary well consider this. Two ordinary teams sit at the top of superleage. Why? because there are all on the same Level near enough. there are no egos. they all want to play for each other. TEAMS win games, not individuals.

That what Wire are at the minute a load of individuals..

Give me a load of 'ordinary' lads who want to play for each other over a team of supersatars playing for themselves any day.

Luke Gale anyone? Would you have him in your team? London > Bradford > Cas. An ORDINARY player by all accounts at his previous two teams. Playing well but nothing of note. Stick him in a team where everyone plays for eachother and not everyone wants him.


Ordinary. Jesus wept.

Hindsight is wonderful. If we had announced that we had signed those players at the time they signed for their current club would we have been delighted? I suspect not.

Firstly Luke Gale wasn't on that list.

Secondly You did watch the million pound game last year? Without their points deduction Salford would have been mid table but they weren't and a Warrington cast off saved the club with a drop goal. How did Robert Lui go throughout that season

Thirdly scoring acrobatic tries isn't the be all and end all of being a top class winger. .he was rank average at Leeds playing in a top quality side if he was more than that he'd be a treble winning winger. Instead he just looks like a big fish in a small pond at wakey....

And isn't he a failed full back converted to a winger. ....
We've got one of them.

Look we will always look at "lower teams" players but we must be selective. We've done well with the Nat Woods benny Westwood's of this world etc. .. but then gone on to pick up the Mylers and ratchfords etc.

But on your final point Luke Gale is exactly what this club needs but he would cost am horrendous amount of money and he's unlikely to ever leave Cas. ...

Would have cost next to nowt when he looked ordinary at London and Bradford.

And I think you'll find my question in the very first post was to ask other to list players that were available that we missed out on. I'll name a few more then.

Todd Carney
Ben Barba
Terry Campese
Michael Dobson
Zeb Taia
Morgan Escare
Albert Kelly
Luke Douglass
Greg Bird
Steve Michaels
Mahe Fonua
Michael Minichiello
Marc Sneyd
Rangi Chase
Jesse Sene-Lefao
Sam Moa
Glenn Stewart
Eloi Pelissier
Lama Tasi


All moved around in the last few seasons. Are these names well known enough? or are they also Ordinary?

Penny could be a success if Smith could only put his ego to one side and drop Russell.

aw come on Terry Campese....he made Gary Wheeler look bullet proof. he was a disaster for Hull KR.

Greg Bird is Catalans Marquee player and he always said he would return there when finished in the NRL. your not naming an undiscovered Gem there hes a state of origin and test level player.

Theres loads of Turkeys in that list though Glen Stewart is at Leigh and isnt ripping up trees I'm not sure what your list is trying to prove.

We cant sign everyone ....Tony Smith has tried but we cant. We have also got to Stop throwing £100 grand transfer fees for players of the like of Westerman and Lineham and whatever we paid for Brown...... its just ridiculous and isn't working.
Can you list players who's contracts were up where we could have stepped in and offered them something .... Like Fafita at Wakey who just resigned a new contract?

that I might be interested in

you think we should have signed Rangi Chase...???

At what point have I said 'I think we should have signed these players'

It is purely a list of players who were/are available Over the last few seasons.

I guess the point I'm making is our recruitment is effing pants. I guess my point is Since Briers, Morley, Carvell, Wood, Monaghan(x2) and Higham left, We've not replaced them have we?

We've got great Players in Ratch and Clark but they can't do it on their own. Ratch is arguably the only player who has successfully replaced another player, Hodgeson. Clark needs a second hooker like Monaghan. Clark is world class but would be far more effective off the bench around a tired ruck in the last 20 minutes of each half.

Smith has to be held accountable. Because the point is flying biscuit, all the names mentioned previous were available and on the market. Instead of seeing any of them we saw:

Wheeler
England
Bailey
Blythe
Cox
Asotasi
Brown
Russell

Ratch successfully replaced Hogdson? I'd argue all day long against that one - Ratch is not in the same league as Hodgson. I don't care that Ratchford was in great form at the time and Hodgson hadn't trained all week - still convinced we'd have won that GF with Hodgson instead of Ratch. ANOTHER big game clanger from Smith.

It's not Smith's fault that the standard of player available from that era has slipped but what we have recruited could've been a lot better

I know he's not in the same league as Hodgeson. I never said he was.

What I did say was that out of all the player that have left, Ratch at fullback is the only position we have successfully filled. Lets look at some of the quality that have left:

Hodgeson
Joel Monaghan
Chris Bridge
Chris Riley
Lee Briers
Richie Myler
Chris Hicks
Vinnie Anderson
Louis Anderson
Simon Grix
Matt King
Adrian Morley
Gareth Carvell
Trent Waterhouse
David Solomona
Michael Monaghan


Now lets look at the top quality, succesfull signings.

- Stefan Ratchford
- Chris Hill
- Daryl Clark

And then we have our decent, average signings:

- Ryan Atkins
- Tom Lineham
- Joe Westerman
- Dom Crosby


Now lets look at our flops:

- Roy Asotasi
- Gary Wheelchair
- Jordan Cox
- Ryan Bailey
- Matty Blythe
- Matty Russell
- Kevin Brown

We've lost 16 players, Signed 14 (off the top of my head), 3 of which are quality, 4 of which are average and 7 of which were/are poop.
Smith has to be held accountable when you consider some of the players that were available which is what this thread was supposed to be about.

Our recruitment is cack.

no sandow?

you also need to factor promotion from within, when looking at recruitment.

Other than pooh-poohing your initial List I'm not sure I'm the bloke you need to argue with....

I agree with your point that our Recruitment is currently a disgrace...it would be difficult to argue that Tony smiths recruitment is any better than Paul Cullens.

What I dont agree with is your first very ordinary list of players as being a viable list of options. to me they would have most likely ended up on your very last list the Wheeler England Cox etc list....

We once replaced Mathers (perceived very ordinary by his former club fans) with man of steel winning Brett Hodgson.
We once replaced Michael Sullivan with Michael Monaghan. We used to replaced good with better or ordinary with much better.
now we take punts on injury cases, second tier rubbish,and lost causes.
In addition to that we overpay players (i'm assuming) leaving our squad threadbare.
We have one quality hooker.....a Marquee player if i'm lead to believe. yet he's not as good as Michael Monaghan but becasue he takes up a chunk of salary we also dont have the understudys of the quality of Mickey Higham and Jon Clarke that we had back in the day.