Replacement props nowhere near good enough. That is all.

Sims himself needs to bang a stone on in off season.
I like his attitude to our cause but effectively he doesn't break a tackle or draw a number of defenders to put him down.

Average player, always has been. You can't knock his effort, he just not that good.

Agree that just about sums him up

It is just as big a problem in that we tend to go backwards faster when Hill and Sims are not on the pitch (I really need to add Harrison into that) It is a shame that we are missing Grix and that yesterday we were missing Westwood because in terms of controlling an attacker to avoid a quick play the ball most of our best defenders were not on the pitch for spells yesterday (Bridge can also be very good at holding a player up to wrestle).
Hull KR managed to gain some easy metres on us yesterday which meant that they had time to put in some nice attacking kicks.
Just one well controlled tackle in a set of six can put a halt to the quick play the ball momentum but for spells yesterday we just couldn't make that one decent tackle.
We went into scramble mode and were just happy to make any tackle. If you watch NRL teams, they notice when a quick PTB is on and they will retreat the 10 Metres and will hardly move off the line this means that the players returning late to the defensive line are stood with the other 9 men in the line rather than the defensive line moving up quick and the later retreating player has caused a staggered line. In the NRL this usually means that the tackle after a quick PTB is well controlled and a lot slower even though they have conceded 10m


So the problem of a lack of go forward when Hill, Sims (And Harrison) looks worse because the problem is also in defence.
Wheeler is not Chris Bridge
Clarke and Dwyer (Which ever player was rotated into loose forward) cannot control players like Ben Harrison can
Wilde is not Ben Westwood just yet (He is good but I dont think Larroyer would have got much change out of Westwood)
The differences between the front rowers is well documented
And I will take a bit of stick here but I dont think that Ben Currie can control an attacker like Waterhouse (Or even Anderson) used to do just yet.
One thing on yesterday -We made almost the same mistakes as we did in last years semi final, I am sure I remember a forward pass from Currie to Myler early on in the game last year that put Myler through a gap very similar to the Sims to Myler play yesterday. and we gave away tons of possession on dropped ball and poor last tackle plays. We just dont learn from our mistakes and know how to play boring but effective at times in big games.

I don't think Wilde should have started, I guess philbin's leg is pretty crocked, he should have been the best replacement for Westwood to start off with.

I know he's only two months or so into first team than Sam but I think that would count for a lot,

I can't and don't believe that TS hasn't noticed the issue and am hoping there's something else planned.

But if we go in to 2016, even witth Gidley, Sandow, Lineham and Hughes, were in for another year of disappointment.

Unfortunately, what we are seeing are the fruits of the ridiculous demise of reserve teams in favour of the under 19s & straight to first team policy. We are seeing a mixture of old crocks & young under developed kids being touted as stars of superleague with gaps being filled in with overpaid ,overrated, under performing imports.
Hopefully ,the reintroduction of A teams will provide a platform for younger players to mature into future stars without them having to be thrown in at the deep end. As it is we are seeing too many players who don't make it before 19 being lost to the game altogether.

I completely agree. I would be staggered if we don't get two new props. If Asotasi is given another year then Smith has lost it.

Quote ="Wires71"I completely agree. I would be staggered if we don't get two new props. If Asotasi is given another year then Smith has lost it.'" Taken from BBC Sport July 2013 www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/23142802

Quote ="Wires71"I completely agree. I would be staggered if we don't get two new props. If Asotasi is given another year then Smith has lost it.'" Taken from BBC Sport July 2013 www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/23142802

Yep, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Like how he is your vocal leaders but offers so little with the ball. His first spell today was awful. Agree you need two props, Adam walker from KR or Liam Watts from FC would be good shouts.

Watts is an OK shout but also

Millington @ Cas
Manukofoa @ Widnes
Ukuma Taia @ Hudds

I like sims and think he does a lot of work. If England can stay fit and improve a little I would keep him but we do need another prop. With no rumoured signing and Hughes signing this does lead me to think Westwood will convert to prop, he isn't getting any younger.

If next years pack was

Hill
Clark
Sims
Currie
Hughes
Grix

Westwood
Harrison (both interchange props)
Dwyer
Laithwaite

RD it's a fantasy to think there are sackfulls of line breaking prop forwards marauding up field scattering bodies on fifty years romps to the try line. (I know you haven't said that...but it appears to be what people want to see)

I've just watched two nrl games and not one prop forward has broke the line and I've been watching James Graham. David klemmer, Frank Pritchard, jarrod warea-Hargreaves, leeds bound Keith Galloway and Aaron Woods..... Woods couldn't even break through the banner to commemorate his appearances!!!

TBF Woods did actually break a tackle but that was a four man tackle and two of the storm defenders knocked each other of the tackle. ..

Sims is plenty good enough...but him and Hill need help...when we have two Crap interchanges and no grunt in the second row or lose forward. It's an achievement that Hill and Sims manage to look just ok with the rubbish in the rest of yesterdays pack.

I like your optimism Pies not about England, but, about Grix. Is there any news of a return any time and I don't even mean soon? It's right that the club has stood by him how long out is too long?

We as posters and the club could all keep putting Grix in our starting packs at 13, but, at some point any return by Grix must be seen as a bonus rather than a plan.

Not so much as a slight hint on a return for Grix we have missed him, I feel it will also be a long recovery period for Laithwaite, we could have done with them both at the moment.

Exactly why I posted, put Grix in the mix have Westwood Laithwaite and B Evans available then we might not have suffered up front so much and that's no sleight on Philbin or Wilde

I spoke to a guy (I know, a guy in the know) who is well connected within the local amateur scene and at the Wire, he believes that Grix will retire at the end of the season. He was bang on that we would sign a half back for the Super 8's though it wasn't until late that he gave the name which we all knew anyway

He has also suggested that Harrison is off toe Wakefield?

I think pretty much that too, but it still wouldn't harm Sims to bang on 1/2 a stone in the off season.
Ice said on another thread, we do okay with Sims and Hill then replace them with much less effect, the replacements should always be as good as the ones that have been subbed!
I don't understand what we play will such an imbalance of front row pairings??

At the game on Saturday when Asotasi came on in the first half, im sure he didnt take a carry up till the second half. I couldnt believe it, it was a bloody semi final and he couldnt be d! Someone please correct me if i was wrong, but if i was on the bench i would have been busting a gut to get on and make an impact. Him, he made his first hit up in the second half. England is crap, his defence his atrocious! Totally flat footed, a wheelie bin is as much use as him. We need two props, one is a priority.

And still absolutely no mention of any props or even the hint of us being linked with one

Catalans have just signed big dave Taylor, I know he can be lazy but put him back at prop rather then second row which he plays and he dominates. Fuck me there'll be no bloody props left anywhere by the time we get round to it

Sorry, but I totally disagree with the negative comments about sims. FB is spot on in what he says, I too watch a fair amount of NRL and line breaking props are like hens teeth. It's certainly no coincidence we went to poop as soon as Sims and Hilly were taken off in the first half. I watched Sims when he played for the Cowboys, and more often than not he used to put in a full 40 in the first half then come back on for the last 20 of the second. Still, I suppose we do need yet another scapegoat now that Myler is away on his toes.

I made a point of watching his second spell. He is cunning. In attack (particularly the hard yards in our own half) he lines up purposefully such that not to be a contender to receive the ball from the play the ball. In defence he lumbers back so slowly he is offside for the next set.

It amazes me that he is in the side.

Asotasi stats (from the League Express) from the semi -

Tackles - 11, Missed Tackles - 2, Carries - 3, Metres - 20

I was going to put Alex Walmsley's stats in by way of a comparison but frankly it's depressing. He probably makes more metres getting up for a 3AM jimmy than Asotasi has all season.

I've never gone much on stats, miaw, I've got eyes, I can make up my own mind, without some Phil Larder clone waffling on. However, those figures for the "waste of skin in the 15 jersey" are, quite simply, appalling/bordering on wage theft.
3 CARRIES? LOVING 3 CARRIES? The 11 tackles, more than likely will involve him being the third/fourth man in, when the grunt's already been done.

Workshy, bone idle lover.