In April 1997 we sold Iestyn Harris for £375,000. Shortly after we signed Lee Briers for £65,000 to replace him. This was just as DVDV arrived as coach. In hindsight how good a piece of business was this!

I remember the mood being really flat when Harris left especially in the messy circumstances. I thought we had missed a real trick because Harris was going to go on to dominate the British game. When he came through he was seen as the heir to Jonathan Davies, he got that big deal with the ARL v SL bidding war that made him best paid teenager in rugby etc and he looked like he was a real genius in the making.

Who would have thought back then when we were looking to replace him, that there was a better player in Saints Academy, that we were going to pick up for a fifth of the price of the Harris fee, and would go on to have the career for us that Harris would never have done even had he stayed?

Harris always had his heart set on union, and although we missed out on the best three years of his league career 1998 to 2000, it was inevitable he was going to move on. And when he came back to league the game had moved on and Harris wasn't able to move with it and have the impact he once did.

Briers on the other hand might have taken a while to reach Harris heights, but he stayed loyal to us for sixteen years and as the game got better and defences improved, Briers got better with it. Harris was a terrific captain at Leeds, won Man of Steel and was instrumental in winning them a Challenge Cup and getting them to a Grand Final, but comparing the two over their careers I think you have to say Briers was the better player. Three Challenge Cups beats Harris' trophy count. Admittedly Harris did win a Grand Final with Bradford in 2005 and he did play quite well that season, but he wasn't an instrumental part of the Bradford team the way Briers was for us in those Challenge Cups. Unfortunately the latter years of Harris career were more remembered for him being a financial millstone around Bradford's neck that dragged them down, whilst at the same time Warrington were on the up being fired by Briers in the best days of his career.

Had we somehow been able to keep Harris in 1997, we would have become a one man team with him carrying us to mid table for a few years before he disappeared off to RU, meanwhile Briers would more than likely have been Saints halfback for the next decade and a half because just a couple of months after he signed for us, Goulding had a bust up with Saints and that would have been Briers chance. Who knows where Long would have ended up?

So what do you reckon? Was Briers a better player than Harris over their full careers? Was Harris out and Briers in the best piece of transfer business we have done....?

I must say , i didn't see much of Harris play due to work commitments during his years in a Warrington shirt , but the last 10 or 12 years watching Briers have usually been inspirational every game & worth the admission fee alone. What you say though about a one man team is sometimes true when Briers plays with most plays & move endings involving him. It might be a different format we see next season with moves coming from different plays & different players & could open up a whole new attacking system for the team.

I missed Harris' time with us, but I have watched games of him in a Wire shirt my grandad had taped, he was lethal when he wanted to be, he seemed to just be able to ghost through a defensive line without even putting his foot down, but for me over their careers I think Briers was the better play in his position, and though Briers didn't have the strength or sometimes speed to outright con a defence, he didn't need to have because he constantly found ways around them anyway.

Harris relied, primarily, on his pace and step. Not dissimilar to Davies in the that respect. The fundamental difference was Davies also had that burst of acceleration that could also get him past defences. Harris was that little bit one paced, which, when it started to dimnish meant he had to rely more on his passing game, which was actually quite weak for a halfback.

This again is where the fundamental difference occurs between Briers and Harris. Harris would run a cross the the line looking for the pass. Briers would have made his pass choice upon receipt of the ball.

I am sure Harris wouldn't change his career, but for mine, he should have yielded more silverware, in both codes.

Different players really, Briers is more about creating space and time whereas Harris was more about breaking the line himself, and more often than not finishing it.

Both were intelligent players, Briers had better organisation and could dictate tempo and direct a team. Harris at the time had old pro's like Powell to do a lot of that while he played the 'Tomkins' role. There's more comparison between Sam and Iestyn. Both can play halfback, but are natural runners and line breakers.

In the same team they would have been devastating, and were with Wales in the 2000 WC. But I think for the team we had, Briers would be the better choice, as Harris would have been left to create and finish pretty much all on his own after Sculthorpe left, I don't think he would have had the same influence as he did at Leeds.

All this,

personal opinion, i think briers was a better allround player/playmaker. But Harris as an individual ball runner was scary, if you think how he played in SL1, he was scary.

I'd actually like to know what happened at the start of SL2, when he agreed to come back into the team and played fullback for 2 games, and then was gone. Was this purely a way to get back into the board's good books to facilitate a move? or try prevent some flak from the wire fans pending that move.

Yes I agree with all of that. I never thought Harris was that quick but he did seem to break the line a lot, he had good footwork, he seemed to slide along the line and then slip away from a tackle and float through the line. But like you say he didn't have the express pace that Davies did. Davies was actually like the best of Harris and Briers combined plus genuine pace, because Davies' kicking game was up with Briers too. Davies was in a league of his own.

Harris had a bigger pass on him than Briers but I don't think it was as effective. Briers would delay the pass and fizz it off to the man outside at the right time, Harris could cut men out with his long ball but that long pass was only effective in his first spell in league, by the time he came back from union defences had worked that one out. Harris' kicking game was decent but not in Briers' league.

I agree that Harris could have had a better career in terms of silverware. A few months ago when Michael Owen retired in football all the tributes of his career were saying great start but the rest of his career was a bit of an anti-climax, thats what happened to Harris too. He was unlucky with the timing of his moves. He joined Wales RU at a time when they were not great and he was expected to come in, learn a new code and be their talisman. If he'd been around a few years later he'd have been in a very strong and professional Wales team and it would have been easier (although he may not have got a chance in their team). He was doing OK in union though, he was really good in World Cup 2003 and then he came back to league a few months later which seemed strange timing.

Going to Bradford was a bad move for both parties, seeing as Leon Pryce wanted to play at 6 which is why he left surely the best thing would have been to play Pryce there who was a Bradford lad. I think once Noble had stuck his neck out going for Harris and the club had got themselves committed to the legal case they had no option but to try and build the team round him like Leeds had done but it was painful to see he couldn't have the same effect. Leeds didn't need him as they had McGuire coming through and Sinfield was now their playmaker - the irony is that the better move for Harris might have been to come back to us.

In 2004 we had that April Fools thing where someone photoshopped Harris' head on to Mark Hilton's picture and sent out a fake press release saying we'd signed him, but in Harris book he said not long after that Warrington did make an approach for him. Harris had a good relationship with Paul Cullen from their playing days as when Harris was banished from the dressing room and made to go running in the early mornings, Cullen stuck up for him, was saying don't let them break you etc. Harris chose Bradford because they were ahead of us - at the time - but had he come to us I reckon we could have played him and Briers at 6 and 7 like they did in the 2000 RL World Cup for Wales and that might have been better for him than Bradford. But I wouldn't have wanted us to have had that legal case from Leeds on our backs...

Maybe it was because we were playing for time because Alex Murphy did not want to sell him to Saints. From what I remember, through that GB tour to NZ/Pacific Islands the winter before, all the talk was that Harris was going to Saints. So it might have been that we planned to offload him in the off season but because we were not willing to sell to Saints, we still had him when 1997 started, and so had to start using him again while waiting for another bidder.

The other story I remember from that time, cant remember if I read it or someone told me, was that Warrington had wanted the schoolboy Sinfield in part exchange but Gary Hetherington said no way, Sinfield is going to be even better than Iestyn, so they gave us Danny Sculthorpe.

I played at Parkside with Mike Bennett (Ex Saints) and we played against Royton Tigers in which Danny Sculthorpe played for at the time, Danny hit him with a sh*thouse challenge, Benny took exception to it, stood up and gave him a right hook, a right hook that may as well been delivered by a Butterfly for the good it did, Danny looked back at him and gave him one back which nearly sent him back in time. On reflection we all still laugh at that.

Harris was good with us and awesome at his peak but it was relatively short lived. I think his move to RU meant he never performed at the same level again. I certainly wasn't that impressed when he was in RU or when he came back.
He was a totally different player to Briers, but for me there are very few in the northern hemisphere who had the 'rugby brain' or range of skills of Briers.
He was ALWAYS thinking both with and without the ball.
In his good and great games it was a real privilege to watch him play.
He wasn't fast - even at his peak - but his brain was working at least 2 seconds ahead of everyone elses.

Obviously with Briers being almost a 'one team' man and Harris only being with us for a few years, it's clear that most have seen Briers more - and we've got to be careful not to look through rose-tinted spectacles.
He was 'variable' in his earlier career - not helped by a lack of discipline off the field (allegedly)- partying etc.
He still carried us through some bad times though - undoubtedly.

On the other hand you don't win MoS unless you're very very good. Harris was very very good. As others have said he was more of a ball carrier and definately was the 'Davies heir-apparent'.

At their respective peaks Harris arguably was better but his peak was a few years.
Over longer periods though - undoubtedly Briers.
Briers actually got better with age.

Time has done little to ease my anger (I refuse to use the word hatred) towards Harris - I know the club needed the money his transfer obtained, and I know he cant be blamed for wanting to show his undoubtedly ability in a more substantive and rewarding arena, but his attitude was shabby.

In terms of comparing the two, Briers had the better all-round kicking game, and the better passing game, Harris had the better running game and step. Combine the two and you'd have a half-back to rival anyone.

Briers ultimately went on to fulfill his potential, Harris I feel did not but Harris probably earned more from his career which I'm sure suited him fine.

Of the two, I'd say Briers is the better player. Rugby League changed a lot during those years and he adapted his game accordingly; as his body shape changed and as defences began to target him he acquired new skills.

In terms of skill, I'd say Briers started good and finished Brilliant, Harris started brilliant and finished very good.

Yes - that's a fair assessment I'd say

50% of the game is defending and only of the two can defend. Hence one of the two has 13GB caps the other has zero. And to finish off only one of the two has won Man of Steel. I guess all those GB coaches and all the players who vote for MOS can't be wrong. I rest my case.

Surely no one needs to remind you of other "Capped" stand offs.........

Kevin sinfield
Leon Pryce
Karle Hammond
Danny Orr
Graham Steadman




Harris v Briers both world Class.........Briers was better

Harris.

Harris wasn't picked for GB for his defence. He was never that effective for GB, even in his first spell in league when he was at his best. The Aussies and Kiwis were not the soft defences that Harris tore apart in SL at the time. Classic example was the 1999 Tri Nations, where a GB side packed with top names: Radlinski, Robinson, Connolly, Senior, Sullivan, Harris, Long, Cunningham, Morley, Farrell, Sculthorpe, got hammered by both Aus and NZ. By the time he came back in to the GB team in 2004 and 2005, GB had definitely closed the gap on the southern hemisphere sides and were not easy beats any more, but Harris was a fairly peripheral figure in those series.

Briers missed his GB chance because GB was disbanded after 2007, there were five seasons where Briers was at his peak where there was no GB side and he wouldn't play for England as he'd committed to Wales. Before that there was always debate about should Briers play for GB, but the guys that were picked ahead of him, Sculthorpe, Deacon, Long and McGuire were better players in SL at the time. Briers was still inconsistent back then. Whenever we lost a Test there used always be calls for guys like Briers, Orr, Cooke/Horne and Thorman to be picked but only Briers of that group was good enough for that level and he was up and down.

The last year of GB when Tony Smith was coach, Briers was playing pretty well but Saints and Leeds were head and shoulders the best team and Smith went with Pryce and Burrow who did well and we won 3-0 against NZ so hard to make a case for Briers then.

After GB had been disbanded and it was England, Briers was at his peak and England were using guys like Eastmond, Tomkins, Brown, Robinson, Chase, Myler. If this had been a GB team then Briers would have been in ahead of them I am sure.

That's a really good excuse as to why Briers was never picked for GB. Now take the blinkers off. The only debate about if Briers should play for GB was from Wire fans. Nobody else in the game thought so including all the GB coaches in charge at the time, as much as you like to put the case forward they just can't all be wrong. Conduct this survey in ten years time when neither have played for a long time, as much as Briers has been a good club player- a GB international he was not. Harris on the other hand was many times and as I said before also won MOS.

remember briers giving the aussies the run a round when playing in a wales shirt,,didnt he get the m.o.m in that game...

Harris was a better player. But, if you look from a club perspective, Briers would be the first choice... Sadly, Briers only really showed his full capabilities while under Smith and with a better structure around him.. I'm also sure that Smiths first job was to give him "The hard word". Would have loved to have seen him at Wigan, where he would have been under more pressure to perform, and not be a big fish in a small pond, but you can't fault his loyalty to Warrington.

Harris... Can't remember Briers playing for Rylands.

to be fair your knowledge of the players skill levels, and the 'status' of the man of Steel award is glaringly obvious.

when Harris was voted as man of Steel is was done so by members of the press not player or coaches..... they voted for Adrian Vowles the following year if your interested.

bang yourself on the Wigan and Saints forums and lord it up over Farrell and Sculthorpe with your Adrian vowles chit chat. You could also mention Sean long being better than Andy Gregory while your using the man of steel rule......

Just to clarify, at Warrington Harris was used firstly as a winger, then a centre, and then as a stand off....Briers never had to be moved from the wing slowly but surely into the Middle of the park. Briers was a teenage Standoff that got Saints to a challenge cup final.........Harris never did anything like that with Wires........

Harris went on Strike at Warrington because he wouldn't play full back when Alex Murphy ( a rather Successful coach ) wanted him to...he then Went to Leads and played.....ermm....Fullback it was in this position at leeds that he won his man of steel award... if you can recall as the season wore on he would move from fullback to stand off during the games and it was quite effective....

he had more pace and was stronger in the tackle than briers, every other aspect of the Stand off role Briers was better.

Briers played for Great Britain against France at Agen in 2001, scored a try and kicked a goal, guess David Waite thought he was good enough at the time.

A lot of our fans have strong views on Harris and I think the regime at the club at the time (ie Murphy with Dorahy) did a good job in boxing Harris in to a corner where he was painted as the bad guy amongst the fans. Harris was the most high profile player but a lot of our players were unhappy at that time at the club. The club had seemed a happy place when Brian Johnson and Clive Griffiths were there and we were overachieving, but once those other two came in the mood changed. I think this was around the time the club knew we were in financial trouble and were trying to both cut costs and get revenue for selling players, whilst not wanting to get criticised for being a selling club - the ideal way is to make it look like they were reluctant sellers because a player wanted out.

Harris' story on this was that Warrington had arranged a deal to sell him to Cardiff RU but he said he didn't want to go at that point in his career and he turned the move down and the way he was treated by Murphy/Dorahy deteriorated, he felt they were trying to make him unhappy so he would put in a transfer request and then it wouldn't look like their fault. He then said he wanted to go to another rugby league club and the club said no you're on a five year contract and we can put you in the reserves for five years, you won't play for anyone else. And the banning him from training with the other players, making him get up at 4am to go running with Chadders: just sounds like bullying to me and probably they didn't want to pay his wages and were needing an excuse to say he'd breached his contract so they wanted him to not turn up to training. In his book he said both Chadders was apologetic and embarassed for what he'd been asked by the club to do to him, and Cullen was supporting him saying don't let the club break you etc.

I know people will say well thats just Harris's side and there must be more to it but if he was acting up like a spoilt teenager and shafting the club then guys who were Warrington through and through like Chadders and Cullen would have sorted him right out, they wouldn't have been supporting him.

The club didn't do its business as professionally as it has done in the last decade or so. It's just a shame that a young Harris and young Sculthorpe came through when they did, had they emerged 10 years later we would have probably kept them and gone on to dominate SL with them, especially Scully.

But on Harris had he not left we wouldn't have signed Briers so alls well that ends well on that front.

If your auntie had balls. Would she be your uncle?

Money talks.
Harris moved on because he was offered more money and Wire got a wedge out of it as well.
Sculthorpe moved on for the same reasons
Briers came here because Saints did not want him. Saints do not unload players without a reason.
Briers was loyal because nobody offered him more money. Nobody offered him more money because he was not an eighty minute player and his defence was non existent.
But for Moran and Smith he would have won nothing.
I bet Smith told him that, if he did not buck up he would have followed Gleeson out of the door.
People say he is a legend. I think another word ending in end would be more appropriate because he was a sublimely gifted player who coasted for 80 per cent of his career and was a bad influence on his team mates. Thoroughly unprofessional. The media loved him because he had a innate gift for sound bites and he certainly knew how to talk the talk.
I think Harris was badly advised but he probably made a lot more money that Briers because his contribution, which some of you do not rate, was in demand by those who make a living at the game.
Finally, if you talk about good business, how about selling Briers to Wire then buying Long from Wigan for a song. I know who I would have. Perhaps that is one of the reasons Saints smacked our backsides for so long.