A few good performances and all of a sudden the debate on here has died. So seeing as everyone loved the political thread on here a few weeks ago, I thought we'd have a go at discussing the policies and politics around Rugby League.

The first issue that came to mind was finding out where this forum's members stand on expanding the game from outside the M62 corridor. Are you a expansionist? Do you believe events like The Magic Weekend are good for the game? Are teams like Harlequins, Celtic and Gateshead doing enough to 'spread the gospel' so to speak? Given time, will France, Wales and Scotland etc become forces on the international stage

Or are you a traditionalist? Were Widnes wrongly snubbed in favour of Celtic and Catalan, and is it damaging the game within its heartlands? Are we wasting our time with countries like France, Lebanon and Malta? Or is the international game already dead on its , and isn't worth reviving as its too much of a farce in the way its run?

Discuss.

I think Widnes should be in place instead of Salford.

But prefer expansion. Weekends away in France, Spain, Edinburgh, Cardiff, London etc make the season much better and you have a number of away games to really look forward to.

The debate on here hasn't died due to good performances, there a few other reasons.

Swine flu?

I agree but would like to see Halifax in.

Whats the point in having teams scattered around Europe with the inevitable reliance upon Australian/ New Zealand players - and therefore little connection between the team and the supporters?

For me it was a better game when it was semi-professional and quite often the characters in the team were a reflection of the local population. Those days I suspect have gone forever - but the nostalgia's still as good as it ever was!

expansion needs to happen in some form or another. however, it needs to be tied in with junior development and a massive marketing budget. i think a lot of the expansionist clubs have been short changed by the rfl when it comes to marketing. gateshead were sold down the river when it came to the hull merger, and celtic were in place 15 years too late. when more kids are playing in schools, which they are in all expansion areas, crowds will rise and the game will have as much of a foothold as it does in other regions.

the international game is on the increase, and we have some very talented players from fiji and png playing in the competitions in both australia and europe, and don't forget, the new zealand warrors and catalan are both expansionist clubs, and both have appeared in major domestic finals. this has transcended into the international game, with new zealand being the world champions, and france entering the 4 nations.

neither halifax or widnes are financially vaible at present. they would no doubt add to the competition, but they have to prove they can first. their results, this year had they been let in would be no better than celtics

Surely its like a business, you look for a viable market before you make an investment.

Ideas like take an SL franchise to Scotland are pie in the sky. RU in Scotland struggles, even football which is a national obsession, has got serious problems, there is not much money there and they don't have enough players hence they rely on imports. If Rangers and Celtic join the Premiership then the SPL won't be able to afford a pot to mickey in. So an RL franchise there is not going to make money or grow.

Same thing with a lot of the towns the traditionalists talk about, there's no point giving Featherstone, Dewsbury etc a franchise because there's nothing there, there's no money or potential catchment area on which to grow.

France is a good market to go for, there's a long tradition of RL there, they've got a great sporting culture of junior development which includes government and local authorities as well, and its a potentially very lucrative market. Look at the French RU clubs, they have got far more cash than anyone else which is why they have Gasnier, Sonny Bill, Luke Rooney and co there.

For me its not about being an expansionist or a traditionalist but identifying areas which have got good potential and going for them.

i think it would of been good to see the magic weekend in gatehead at there ground or up in cumbria were 3 teams are hosted from to try and get the locals around there into rugby league instead of finding new fans why carnt we try and help the smaller citys which have been around for a long time and dont really get much help.

But what ground would you get 30-40k fans in? Plus accomodation etc

gateheads ground is big enough and im sure there will be a 30k ground upthere somewhere mybe a football ground just a idea and hotels and camps sites are plenty up in cumbria

I`m somewhere in between, i want the game to expand but i also want the game not to forget its roots and heritage.

Personally i think we have too many Yorkshire clubs as 5 in very close proximity is too many, you then have the 2 Hull clubs not that far away. Ive said before that i`m in favour of a Cumbrian SL franchise whether thats an individual club like Barrow as an example or an amalgamated franchise. The RFL should do more and make it clear to all the Cumbrian clubs that its now or never for a SL franchise in the area and get them all to sit down with the RFL and discuss the best way forward.

At least give them the chance to fail or succeed with the benefit of the 3 year grace system.

An Irish SL team would be great especially for the fans as its as cheap as chips to travel to Ireland and its a great country, i think an Irish franchise would have a better chance to succeed than a Scottish one, a midlands club would also bridge the gap between the north and London.

I would like the game to expand but I for a variety of reasons do not believe this is possible and, as such, all efforts are in ultimately in vain. Fundamentally it is a regional sport with limited nationwide appeal.

I do not like teams being implanted into the top league, held there artificially for 3 years at the detriment to others which deserve a chance to play in the top league on sporting grounds.

It is totally disgraceful in my view that teams like ex SL sides like Widnes, Leigh, Halifax are effectively frozen out for 3 years. But for the grace of God it could have been us.

The league should be expanded further. I think Super League should aim for 18 or 20 teams. That way the likes of Widnes and Fax would be included.

I never understood in the first place why they limited it to 14 teams, if you're going to expand you might as well aim for as many team as possible. After all there's no relegation or promotion so what does it matter? Can't get any worse than Celtic atm.

Like the idea of going back to Gateshead with the Magic weekend. As has been mentioned they were doing great things and have managed to stay afloat after losing, what was at the time, the largest sponsorship deal in the league with Northern Electric. Possible chance of a franchise spot if they improve ona dn off the field 40-50% in the NL.

Sally makes some good points about Scotland not having the ability to sustain the business model for a SL franchise.

Another French side is a must and Toulouse are going great guns at the mo so may be in with a shout.

Widnes may be well prepared for the next bid seeing as Chester are now out of the football league so Steve may concentrate on RL.

All for expansion, but I'm more interested in whether the RFL will have the balls to drop the dead wood from SL.

i agree with the cumbria idea and going to ireland is a good idea to but about the yorkshire clubs i think with celtic and catalns comining in it has kicked 2 lancs clubs in leigh and widnes out otherwise it would of been a 50-50 split but i like the ideas

The problem is that each club gets £ / x from Sky where x is the number of clubs in the league.

Yeah, but more clubs, surely means more viewers?

In an ideal world i would get rid of Harlequins and replace them with a team from Cumbria, Rugby League in the capital has never and will never take off.

I don't think we should take the Weekend to Ireland and i don't think we should include more teams from abroad whilst there is already one in the League.

I think it may be the law of diminishing returns though. If we doubled the league size would we get double the Sky RL subscriptions and advertising revenue and, as a consequence, a doubling of the rights payment to the RFL? I'm not sure we would.

I think Sky have applied the 80:20 rule. 80% of the potential target viewership with 20% of the clubs.

Fulham, London Broncos and Harlequins. Different name, same result - expansionist policy failure.

Indeed, i also wouldn't have the Challenge Cup Final in London either, why should we take our great game and line the pockets of people who don't appreciate our sport.

Eastlands get's my vote.

Its about recovery time, your on about increasing the league to 18 teams which would mean teams would play another 8 games (home and away) which would mean your extending the season by 8 weeks which is 2 months.

That would mean the season would start in February and end in December, we have internationals and the challenge cup to fit in between as well. The players would get virtually no recovery time, rugby league isn`t like football where you can cram in a million and one games in a season as ours is the toughest field sport in the world and players bodies need recovery time.

Suppose never thought of it like that. Maybe just 16 teams then