[url=http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rleague/09/04/08/RUGBYL_Tax.htmlI did warn about the implications of the HMRC actions earlier. Looks like there may be something in it after all[/url

Interesting. Suggests the route being taken is to get back within the cap by making the player responsible for the extra tax, going forward.

(Won't affect any arrears of tax and NI, cos they'll fall on the clubs affected anyway)

That would work, but at the expense of happy players? Must mean your contracts allowed for reversion to players if the tax status changed - that would be good planning and legals if it was.

Assuming of course the report is accurate?

So King and Moanaghan will have to settle for £300k and £200k per year respectively then.


Don't see why your so bothered about Warrington. We are not so desperate that we pick on the ill and infirm to keep our costs down.

It's more important if you have a lot of overseas players who won't except the 12% pay cut ,Club wise it shouldn't effect too much as it is up to the players to pay there own tax bill and not the club,That is why the Inland Revenue went after Appo as the players are basically self employed and not down to the club,I think all negotiations with the RL are to allow clubs to increase the salary cap to cope with the extra 12% they would have to pay the players.
As far as King and Monaghan are concerned I doubt they would be missed by us as they have both been pretty poor .
I also think that this could be another good thing for the game as the so called NRL stars contingent will diminish thus giving more young stars the opportunity to come through.
It imo will hit clubs like Wigan more who have a huge overseas contingent in their team we only have 5 in the squad pies have somewhere nearer 10 due to dubious interpretations of the quota rules .

No need for that. I'm not trolling.

I'm not bothered. I have only ever sought to try and help clear up - across various boards - a raft of misconceptions about the tax issues. Go check out my posts elsewhere and on TotalRl. Its not my fault that your club looks to be (as I suspected but rarely said) one of those more implicated.

But maybe, just maybe, one of the reasons that you have not "...had to pick on the ill and infirm to keep our costs down" is because you were doing something that some other clubs were not doing or at least on that scale, something which if history was being rewritten you would not be allowed to do? Something which, if history was being rewritten, would have amounted to breach of the cap?

But, as I said, I'm not trying to gloat or anything - firstly cos I don't do that, and despise those who do - and secondly because its far from clear which clubs are implicated, and to what extent. As I've said before, there MAY be some clues in which clubs have seemingly managed to get more bang for their bucks, but that's speculation.

No, I'm still just trying to assist the debate in a field where (unlike the game itself, where I am a rank amateur) I know a little about.

Cheers Adeybull you have been helpful on this and your other posts in trying to explaining the tax implications.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what the overseas players decide to do, as for Monas I think he wants out anyway.

Wigan don't pay their players in this way - well under Whelan they certainly didn't because he expected that teh tax man would come sniffing round sooner rather than later.

However, as it basically means that the clubs (Wire and Saints to name 2) that have paid their players this way have effectively been getting a 12.5% increase and advantage on their salary cap for the overseas contingent (typically the most expensive players).

Hardly in the spirit of the salary cap is it - employing tax evasion/avoidance schemes that the tax man is now investigating?????????

i agree could be a good thing... if it means giving young players more of a chance i'd take a drop in standards, although whether losing king and putting in penny would be a drop in standards im not actually convinced!

the other side of the coin is that this seems more likely to affect the big players...the trent barrett and andrew johns category of player...who can have a positive impact on young kids and not the journeymen who are here because they can't get a run in the nrl and could quite happily be axed for the benefit of developing kids

We've paid the players in accordance with a) the law and b) the salary cap/competition rules. If one or the other change then we'll have to react accordingly. I don't see how we can be criticised for being smart in the past and for being open and upfront now.

There is nothng against the law or in the salary cap rules to say that you can't renegotiate a contract partway though the season either...............

Contract implies singular, not plural.

On the image rights issue, I would imagine the details were done in conjunction with a tax expert, doesn't exactly strike me as something done on a whim.

I wonder if anyone who is part of our organisation is experienced in paying foreign nationals, large sums, who temporarily reside in this country in the most tax effecient way?

Not trying to be clever, but the three words I have added are crucial.

From what we have read (and I stress that) it would appear that payments may have been made that were not in accordance with the law - as now clarified. And therefore also the cap rules.

I stress...this remains speculation, although each bit that comes out tends to strengthen the argument.

The key thing would be whether implicated clubs acted in good faith having taken proper advice, or whether they acted negligently or recklessly - or even fraudulently - in pursuing an activity which they knew or ought to have known was suspect. I don't know the answer to that (and I can speculate all I like) and neither does anyone else outside of those actually involved.

The words I've highlighted are crucial. You have as much idea as I do about that - zero. Interesting to speculate/guess though.

Indeed.

What seems increasingly less to be speculation now though is that HMRC ARE pursuing a number of clubs for arrears of tax. My comment was regarding the extent of mitigating circumstances. I hope for the good of the game that implicated clubs did indeed act in good faith after taking proper advice.[size=59 Even Saints.[/size

Wigan certainly did pay their players this way. They just didn't declare it until caught out - does the phrase "deliberately and systematically cheating the salary cap" mean anything to you?


This is like the annual "Warrington has broke the salary cap week" we use to have every year until the truth came out and it was Wigan, Bradford and St Helens who had broke it as usual.

I would suggest that Gatcliffe is willing to put his voice behind the debate as Warrington have nothing to fear from the enquiry. We may well have to pay some money to the Inland Revenue but at least we can source that from our backer in the form of an interest free loan at very short notice. I would be interested to see how Bradford could raise cash from the money market in the current economic climate.

There will be plenty of clubs sweating a lot heavier about this than Warrington will be. Worse case scenario is that King and Monaghan choose to accept an early contract release and the way those signings have turned out lets be honest it could be a blessing in disguise.

I'd love to have seen Mo's piggy features squealing as the documented evidence was put in front of him.

It's ridiculous this. How is Super League supposed to get bigger if they won't allow more money into the game? I know people don't want it to get to the same extent as football, but as the game grows, players deserve higher salaries. They're professional athletes and do just as much as RU players, footie players etc...

Increase the salary cap I say.

need to increase the fanbase before that happens, football players get paid that much because they draw 30000 a week each paying £20 or more

True. But big names bring in the crowds and if we can't get them big Aussie names over here, then it'll go no where.

I think poaching some big name Union players is as a good idea as well.

got to work from the bottom up in my opinion, get the game spread around more, as the rfl are trying to do (with, it seems, increasing success), increased media coverage will follow, increased crowds will follow that

the game is hardly advertised in it's own backyard never mind anywhere else, but why would newspapers and other media waste column inches on something with such a small base in terms of geographical area and number of fans?

we all love the game and think it is the best sport going, but the sad fact is there aren't many of us that agree and i don't think chucking money at it from the top will change that

I'm just saying, for example, Johnny Wilkinson moved to RL, the amount of media coverage rugby league would get would be huge and all those kids that look up to Wilkinson would follow RL, meaning the fan base would increase along with the participants in the sport.

It's kinda similar to Beckham moving to the MLS.

I'm trying to keep this relevant to the salary cap, I personally believe, higher wages, means big name players, which leads onto all sorts of benefits for the sport.

i agree that it would boost interest in the sport but i don't think that interest isn't sutainable without the foundations being set properly

rl spent years poaching the top players from ru but, years after, it still finds itself in a very lowly position when it comes to interest from the general public

In football it's more to do with the massive deals with SKY and such over TV rights.

This accounts for more than gate receipts.

Football is just a bigger sport in every aspect and always will be in our lifetimes.

which would pay for half the team, what about the other half?

and why do tv rights bring in loads of money? because lots of people want to watch the tv when football is on! same can't be said for rl

not entirely accurate.